Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Valmy]

The UK: where they hold referendums that don't count.

[jimmy olsen]

No way Spain will let Scotland join.

[celedhring]

No way Spain will let Scotland join.

If it gets to that point, we will.

Spain's position in this is often mischaracterized. There's a reason Spain recognizes Montenegro but not Kosovo. It's unilateral independence what bothers Madrid.

[Berkut]

A referendum expresses the will of the people at some particular moment in time.

If you think that will is so weighty that a simple 50%+1 is sufficient to throw the entire 100% into turmoil and disaster, then I don't see how someone can argue that a different expression of that same will at some later point in time ought to be ignored.

I get the argument that this public will is generally not well founded and should not be generally taken seriously enough to allow simple majorities to shove the nation into disaster - but I don't understand the idea that there are particular moments that matter ever so much more than others.

If you want to have mob rule, then at least have consistent mob rule, and let the mob go back and forth as it will. If one referendum is awesome, then surely two is at least just as awesome.

[jimmy olsen]

[CountDeMoney]

How can somebody ahead of us time zone-wise still manage to post shit that was already posted yesterday? 

[The Brain]

The UK: where they hold referendums that don't count.

Referenpodes.

[viper37]

I get the argument that this public will is generally not well founded and should not be generally taken seriously enough to allow simple majorities to shove the nation into disaster - but I don't understand the idea that there are particular moments that matter ever so much more than others.

the rules shouldn't changed everytime because you feel like it should change.
Besides, most of the disaster of the Brexit was due to ill planification.  Good planning is all.  Cameron did no plan fro the Brexit victory, and he left frustrated, leaving the country without strong leadership.  And none of the other morons really want to help, event those actually in favour or Brexit. 

Any elected MP could be part of the government's cabinet.  A wise move would have been for the opposition Leader to officially offer his help or for the government to invite other MPs, specially those in favour of the Brexit, to sit on some transitional comittee, even invite them for a Minister post to supervise the transition.  That would have demonstrated unity.

And of course, there should have been a proper plan for the transition.  We could excuse Cameron because he wanted to remain in the UE, but we can't oppose the Leave camp, even if not in government for many of them, to not have a credible plan, to have names for a transitional committed to propose immediatly, to have speeches made to reassure markets of an orderly transition, to detail their plans for the future, etc, etc.

A referendum on such a big issue isn't just a matter of yes or no vote, it's much bigger than an election, and it's up to the parties to have their plans A&B.

And it's up to the people to understand on what they vote.  That is the basis of democracy.  Unfortunately, it seems that it's not only in Quebec and the United States that people are more interested in shitty reality tv shows than politics.

[Valmy]

A referendum on such a big issue isn't just a matter of yes or no vote, it's much bigger than an election, and it's up to the parties to have their plans A&B.

Yep. People should have been presented with exactly what they were voting for. All the exit negotiations with the EU should have been completed and ready to go.

Still it just boggles the mind people voted to leave the EU thinking that meant they were going to stay in the EU but without voting rights like Norway. I guess I figured saying you want to leave the EU means you want to leave the EU. Not stay in the EU but in a fashion that removes more sovereignty and power from your nation.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The average voter doesn't know his arse from his elbow Valmy, you are an American so you must be familiar with that.

That doesn't excuse the silliness of the British elite of course, who should know better.

[Sheilbh]

It's not an election though. How would there be a unified Leave/Remain position when people supporting either side support it for wildly divergent reasons?

Ruth Smeeth's statement on what happened this morning is strong:
http://www.ruthsmeeth.org.uk/statement_on_the_launch_of_the_chakrabarti_report

Striking thing is she isn't a strong anti-Corbynite at all. The only reason I can see for the abuse is that she's Jewish.

[Valmy]

The average voter doesn't know his arse from his elbow Valmy, you are an American so you must be familiar with that.

Ok but even here if Texas had a vote to secede from the Union I don't think anybody would be idiotic enough to think that means becoming the second Puerto Rico. Surely you guys are smarter than Texans.

[Berkut]

I don't think they should leave, despite the vote. It would obviously be terrible for the UK in every way.

But if they do leave, they should just leave. Don't become Norway in relation to the EU, become the US in relation to the EU. Just another non-European country, but a big one.

If you are going to cut ties, then just do it - rip the bandaid off, and go from there. *Then* negotiate the best deal you can from a position as an outsider, if that is what is wanted.

It's a terrible idea, of course. But I don't see how you can honestly claim to implement a terrible idea in a non-terrible way.

[Valmy]

I don't think they should leave, despite the vote. It would obviously be terrible for the UK in every way.

It would be disastrous if they just ignored the referendum as well. Which is why you don't have a referendum if you are unable to honor it.

[LaCroix]

It would be disastrous if they just ignored the referendum as well. Which is why you don't have a referendum if you are unable to honor it.

it might be disastrous to some careers, yeah. but that's the price, eh

if britain ever does completely exit the EU, then I hope as many states as possible separate from britain to remain in the EU.