Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Admiral Yi]

What are you two talking about with the threats and bullying?

[Monoriu]

What are you two talking about with the threats and bullying?

I think they mean that the EU will make the UK feel pain for daring to leave, just to discourage other EU states from leaving.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I wonder if Cameron should've tried to time this differently, or if the timing wouldn't have mattered.

[Barrister]

I wish I had strong feelings either way on this - I can see serious pros and cons for both sides.

But I'm still avidly watching these results roll in. 

[Sheilbh]

Well Donald Trump's visit to the UK today is aptly timed after all

[OttoVonBismarck]

Interestingly a purely business trip, visiting his disastrously failed Scottish golf club.

[Richard Hakluyt]

PM Johnson and President Trump are going to get on great together 

[Valmy]

It works at government. It shouldn't be able to dictate the terms of government for future generations.

Well we will see how much you like what has been created.

For example, the Scottish people - and only them - have a right to self-determination. It isn't for their MSPs to decide to leave just because the SNP win a majority.

Ok stop with the 'self determination' crap you know how I feel about that. The right to self determination is a vote on 2 serbs and one bosniak for who gets to be in ethnic control. Not really something I have much truck with. Individuals have rights and freedoms, the 'people' not so much.

Besides I already made my feelings on why I think the Scottish referendum was terrifying. Even if it is to be made 50.000001% is just not sufficient support for something like that. I mean FFS Sheilbh in this election and in the Scottish one there was so much said about how people would be voting out of spite for some stupid thing the Media said. So some media circus is going to decide the fate of nations because it happened to occur a few days before an election.

Representative reform is superior because it requires a sustained effort over many elections. Or at least it does typically.

When we have a written one I'll worry about that. As I say the referendums we've had over the last 40 years seem to me to be sensible: devolution, voting system and Europe.

Edit: Anyway I've always really disliked the anti-mob/democracy attitudes of the US founders

Well if it remains so I suppose. But so far I have seen two major issues come up in a very short time. In my experience, being a referendum happy state, is that this is something politicians love. They can avoid taking responsibility for anything and just punt it back.

As for the Founding Fathers. Well I agree completely. Most of their anti-Democratic measures have been reformed over the years. The Electoral College remains.

[OttoVonBismarck]

As a gauge of my prognostication ability, back when Johnson declared he was siding with leave I remarked it was the end of his political career. 

[OttoVonBismarck]

ITV has officially called it for Leave.

[Sheilbh]

As a gauge of my prognostication ability, back when Johnson declared he was siding with leave I remarked it was the end of his political career. 

Let's not have a look back at people's predictions

Well we will see how much you like what has been created.

I'm genuinely fairly laid back about the consequences

Corbyn needs to go now. We might have a snap election soon and we need a credible Labour leader for it.

[Barrister]

BBC just called it for Leave.

[Valmy]

Leave has won pretty decisively. Ireland is no longer united in the EU.

[Drakken]

BBC declares officially for Leave.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I think I'm most interested now to see Europe's reaction.