Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - I mean ultimately it was a delayed broadcast. They cut other stuff, just cut or bleep it out. I've a lot of sympathy for the actual people at BAFTA running the live show in the room which would be very difficult, but the BBC broadcast piece just seems like a fuck up.

Although I'm not totally sure that the guy with Tourette's feelings were prioritised given that he left halfway through (so I think he missed the film inspired by him picking up best actor), or really at play.

Edit: And I suspect his feelings were mortification and embarrassment which, I suspect, is partly why he left. That's part of what makes it I think upsetting for everyone.

[garbon]

Although I'm not totally sure that the guy with Tourette's feelings were prioritised given that he left halfway through (so I think he missed the film inspired by him picking up best actor), or really at play.

From their own reporting it doesn't sound like they asked him to leave. Per Hannah Beachler, it wasn't the only time it happened and sounds like he was still around in some capacity after the show given when she reported it was directed at her.

[garbon]

Mandelson also now arrested

[Sheilbh]

Mandelson also now arrested

Purely from the emails that have been released in the latest Epstein dump I think it was impossible to see him not getting arrested for this.

Worth noting, as I think this will leak into conspiracy theory (especially online and especially Americans where the rules are very different) that what the media can report now is very, very restricted. It's not full contempt of court reporting restrictions which kicks in after charging, but it is likely there will be a fair bit of radio silence on these stories now.

From their own reporting it doesn't sound like they asked him to leave. Per Hannah Beachler, it wasn't the only time it happened and sounds like he was still around in some capacity after the show given when she reported it was directed at her.

That's fair. I think it is so difficult. If he wasn't asked to leave then he probably chose to leave halfway through the ceremony where the biopic of his life was being awarded. To me that doesn't feel like he was prioritising himself - although I suppose you could almost see it the other way in that. I think he's said he's "deeply mortified" and you can almost see from the disability perspective that that is the experience of the disease and he left.

Totally agree on the people at the event although I slightly wonder the extent to which they did or should have warned people (particularly hosts) that there's someone with the type of Tourette's where they say taboo, obscene, socially unacceptable things as part of their tic. But then I don't know - I mean it doesn't feel right that you have to warn people there's someone with x disability in advance.

On the other hand the BBC excuse that they just didn't hear it because they were working in a truck is risible.

Edit: Incidentally on the by-election - not particularly keen on the Greens social media video in Urdu with pictures of David Lammy and Netanyah, plus Starmer and Modi. As I say I don't go all in on worrying about communitarianism, but all the big parties do this - there was a by-election where Labour ran leaflets about voting for politicians who are "really on your side" next to a picture of Johnson meeting Modi, the Tories are developing a track record of communitarian campaigns in constituencies targetting Hindu British Indians. Doesn't feel like this sort of thing will end anywhere good.

[OttoVonBismarck]

If I understand correctly, the UK has a type of arrest that we don't have in the U.S. In the U.S. to actually arrest someone, you need to have proven probable cause, either the arresting officer has to articulate he has established PC in the particulars of his encounter with a person or an officer needs to have already articulated such to a judge who has issued an arrest warrant.

Police here can detain you upon reasonable suspicion (an even lower evidentiary bar), for the purposes of an investigation, but that normally means a brief detention on the street or side of the road. They normally have to establish PC during that detention or cut you loose.

If I understand correctly this guy is more the American equivalent of an investigatory detention, except here you can't formally arrest someone for that purpose.

[Sheilbh]

I'm not a criminal lawyer but I think that's right - and you're not normally detained after arrest in the UK you're likely to be released on pre-charge bail (which isn't typically monetary but may have conditions).

I think what qualifies as arrest in the US is normally similar to charging here. That's basically when the police believe they have enough of a case (in consultation with the prosecutors). That's also when the really strict reporting restrictions kick in. So people can be de-arrested and re-arrested as well.

I suspect here they're arresting with a warrant - given that both have been accompanied with searches of properties. My understanding is that arrest is necessary here in certain circumstances to in effect give the accused a sort of warning - so if you've got a solicitor they may say to the police that they need to make an arrest to go down certain lines of questioning or investigation. They need to make it clear they're no long interviewing/investigating with a potential witness but with a suspect.

[Richard Hakluyt]

In general the police can only hold someone for 24 hours before they either charge you with a crime or release you.

https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/how-long-you-can-be-held-in-custody

The police would like longer of course 

They can also just ask you to turn up to answer some questions of course, a voluntary interview which I suspect one would be advised to attend.

[Valmy]

In general the police can only hold someone for 24 hours before they either charge you with a crime or release you.

This was my understanding of how it worked in the US as well. But it seems like they just sort of hold people forever now without charging them.

[Sheilbh]

In general the police can only hold someone for 24 hours before they either charge you with a crime or release you.

https://www.gov.uk/arrested-your-rights/how-long-you-can-be-held-in-custody

The police would like longer of course 

They can also just ask you to turn up to answer some questions of course, a voluntary interview which I suspect one would be advised to attend.

I think if you're arrested they can compel you to attend a police interview (obviously they can't make you answer - but unlike in the US silence/refusal to answer can be used against you in certain circumstances).

My understanding is that's why people may be arrested for a while so the police can make you come back for further questions.

[Richard Hakluyt]

There seems to be something called "police bail" from the link I posted :

"The police can release you on police bail if there's not enough evidence to charge you. You do not have to pay to be released on police bail, but you'll have to return to the station for further questioning when asked.

You can be released on conditional bail if the police charge you and think that you may:

commit another offence
fail to turn up at court
intimidate other witnesses
obstruct the course of justice
This means your freedom will be restricted in some way. For example, they can impose a curfew on you if your offence was committed at night."

[Sheilbh]

Ah okay thanks - I think that sounds like what I thought was called "pre-charge bail".