Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (11.8%)
British - Leave
7 (6.9%)
Other European - Remain
21 (20.6%)
Other European - Leave
6 (5.9%)
ROTW - Remain
36 (35.3%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (19.6%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Sheilbh

On the one hand I was very unhappy with delaying elections for a second year - on the other yet another u-turn.

And again the Starmer/Johnson special of sticking with a decision just long enough to get no political benefit for the u-turn and sending out enough reluctant ministers and MPs to get maximum political damage for pursuing it in the first place. All the pain for no gain. In this case giving Reform a big issue they've been pushing about Starmer cancelling elections and trying to abolish juries etc - and, because they were legally challenging it, the taxpayer will have to pay them £100k of costs :bleeding:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2026/feb/16/government-cancels-plan-to-delay-local-council-elections-in-england

Elsewhere, reports that Jonathan Powell (who was Tony Blair's Chief of Staff - and is a key, disastrous, foreign policy aide for Starmer) has turned down Starmer's offer to become his Chief of Staff. Apparently Powell is (thankfully) plnning to leave Downing Street. Still find it really, really weird the extent to which Starmer is relying on Blair-era appointees. I can't think of a previous example. It'd be like Tony Blair getting Bernard Donoughue or Marcia Williams and her lavendar notepad back to run Downing Street - or David Cameron recruitnig heavily from John Major's operation. It's just weird and - I think crucially - those Blair people were fantastic at politics in the 1990s, but we're in a different world in very many ways and they've spent the last 25 years not doing day-to-day electoral politics but the politics of Davos and Munich. They were quite successful so they offer sage advice to corporate leaders and think-tanks in well-upholstered meeting rooms.

Starmer has also removed the Cabinet Secretary (again, good, again, disastrous that Starmer appointed him - posted about Wormald and the warnings a few times). This is fairly unprecedented and there's briefing wars within Whitehall that are unlike anything I can think of.

Struck by Ben Judah who was recently a SpAd in the FCDO noting that everyone knows how many PMs we've been through as a sign of instability. What's as shocking is how many Cabinet Secretaries we've been through. They are the head of the civil service and traditionally would expect to serve for 10 years or so. We've burned through 3 since Jeremy Heywood in 2018. In part I think this is possibly that the skills that make for a plausible Cabinet Secretary are possibly not quite right any more and the job is too big for anyone unless they're really exceptional, like Heywood. But also really struck by Judah's comments that he and other Labour SpAds were genuinely very surprised on taking office on how small p political the civil service was - lots of anonymous briefings and leaking, not just against the (political) government but basically against each other, lots of entrenched fiefdoms and old boys' networks still (I'm reminded of speaking with a very senior civil servant in my area about some policy and he was genuinely the poshest person I've ever met :lol:).
Let's bomb Russia!

Richard Hakluyt

In more positive news UK bankers are planning to set up an alternative to the effective Visa/mastercard duopoly :

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2026/feb/16/uk-bank-bosses-plan-visa-mastercard-alternative#:~:text=City%20funders%20will%20be%20in,to%20the%20group%20next%20year.

It is being portrayed as a common sense increase in resilience rather than a consequence of doubts about American reliability. Which is fair enough, both are good reasons to develop this alternative imo.

Sheilbh

#32612
Makes a lot of sense and I think getting the banks to pay for and build it is also probably the right approach. It should be something some European countries (UK, Netherlands and Estonia spring to mind) should be able to do pretty well given that there are really developed fintech sectors that have built payment tools.

(Fintech, with some AI tools too, plus some of the chip stuff and cutting edge industrial companies is why I think the most braindead right-wing American attack on Europe is that it's not innovative.)

Edit: Incidentally it's also where I'm really not so sure the American tech supremacy is quite as strong as people (particularly in Silicon Valley) seem to think. US companies have a huge advantage in the infrastructure (data centres) of our age with AWS, Google, Microsoft etc - and there are some specific areas where there's no Western equivalent outside the US (Palantir). But an awful lot of the big American tech companies are in social media and messaging and make their money from advertising (I still find it insane that the world's biggest companies basically make all their money from selling advertising) - and for all of those there are equivalents in other internets like Russia, Iran, China etc. They're not easy to replace when they already have monopoly power, but it's not like the actual underlying business is inimitable (in fact its imitability is precisely why they need the monopoly power). There's no doubt in my mind that they'd be replaced very quickly on a European internet - even if it might take a while for the monopolies to emerge.
Let's bomb Russia!

Tamas

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 17, 2026, 04:56:21 AMMakes a lot of sense and I think getting the banks to pay for and build it is also probably the right approach. It should be something some European countries (UK, Netherlands and Estonia spring to mind) should be able to do pretty well given that there are really developed fintech sectors that have built payment tools.

(Fintech, with some AI tools too, plus some of the chip stuff and cutting edge industrial companies is why I think the most braindead right-wing American attack on Europe is that it's not innovative.)

Edit: Incidentally it's also where I'm really not so sure the American tech supremacy is quite as strong as people (particularly in Silicon Valley) seem to think. US companies have a huge advantage in the infrastructure (data centres) of our age with AWS, Google, Microsoft etc - and there are some specific areas where there's no Western equivalent outside the US (Palantir). But an awful lot of the big American tech companies are in social media and messaging and make their money from advertising (I still find it insane that the world's biggest companies basically make all their money from selling advertising) - and for all of those there are equivalents in other internets like Russia, Iran, China etc. They're not easy to replace when they already have monopoly power, but it's not like the actual underlying business is inimitable (in fact its imitability is precisely why they need the monopoly power). There's no doubt in my mind that they'd be replaced very quickly on a European internet - even if it might take a while for the monopolies to emerge.

I am Twitter's sceptical look.

Jacob


Tamas

It's just that despite the availability of European alternatives, Twitter continues to be the primary source for European journalists, and the primary comms method for politicans and governments.

Jacob

Quote from: Tamas on February 17, 2026, 05:06:42 PMIt's just that despite the availability of European alternatives, Twitter continues to be the primary source for European journalists, and the primary comms method for politicans and governments.

Yeah... a bit awkward, that.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Tamas on February 17, 2026, 05:06:42 PMIt's just that despite the availability of European alternatives, Twitter continues to be the primary source for European journalists, and the primary comms method for politicans and governments.
Sure - but as I say really difficult to replace once they're in a monopoly position (and I think these are areas that trend to monopolies). But other internets have, for a variety of reasons, created alternatives pretty easily. As long as we're on the American internet, they'll dominate.

My main point though is that there are some areas where American tech supremacy is real. But an awful lot is social media companies of one sort or another selling advertising which has been an easily replicable business model on other internets, like China or Russia. Compare with, say ASML.
Let's bomb Russia!

Richard Hakluyt

Yes, I think a sudden loss of visa/mastercard services would be catastrophic (until we get the alternative set up) but the sudden loss of twitter could even be beneficial for the UK. It is noticeable, for example, how many British politicians posture as if we were Americans with American problems rather than a different place with different problems, having to switch to a homegrown alternative could help squash this a bit at least.

We keep on talking about this but the presentation of London as some sort of lawless hellhole is particularly annoying and inaccurate. It is repeated by some British politicians who must know that it is basically bollocks, a completely fake reality dreamed up to buttress racist fantasies.

The Brain

It annoys me that many politicians etc (in Sweden) still use the Nazi X platform. No way I'm accessing X.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

mongers

Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 18, 2026, 03:22:30 AMYes, I think a sudden loss of visa/mastercard services would be catastrophic (until we get the alternative set up) but the sudden loss of twitter could even be beneficial for the UK. It is noticeable, for example, how many British politicians posture as if we were Americans with American problems rather than a different place with different problems, having to switch to a homegrown alternative could help squash this a bit at least.

We keep on talking about this but the presentation of London as some sort of lawless hellhole is particularly annoying and inaccurate. It is repeated by some British politicians who must know that it is basically bollocks, a completely fake reality dreamed up to buttress racist fantasies.


Yes, a well made couple of points.  :bowler:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

crazy canuck

#32621
Quote from: The Brain on February 18, 2026, 03:33:12 AMIt annoys me that many politicians etc (in Sweden) still use the Nazi X platform. No way I'm accessing X.

Yeah, I don't think many Canadian politicians use that platform anymore. Well, with the exception of conservatives.

edit: I need to correct this.  I just saw a Globe article in which Carney announced a floor crossing on X.
Awarded 17 Zoupa points

In several surveys, the overwhelming first choice for what makes Canada unique is multiculturalism. This, in a world collapsing into stupid, impoverishing hatreds, is the distinctly Canadian national project.

OttoVonBismarck

Brits to resist cultural imperialism of American politics--might I suggest you migrate to a new language. Mutual intelligibility with America is not to your benefit.

I suggest reverting to Old English.

Jacob

Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on February 18, 2026, 12:18:44 PMBrits to resist cultural imperialism of American politics--might I suggest you migrate to a new language. Mutual intelligibility with America is not to your benefit.

I suggest reverting to Old English.

They can just wait until the US replaces English with Spanish. It's apparently going to happen any minute.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Jacob on February 18, 2026, 12:32:18 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on February 18, 2026, 12:18:44 PMBrits to resist cultural imperialism of American politics--might I suggest you migrate to a new language. Mutual intelligibility with America is not to your benefit.

I suggest reverting to Old English.

They can just wait until the US replaces English with Spanish. It's apparently going to happen any minute.

Or if the American government is accurate, Latin and Greek are about to experience a resurgence of popularity within the US.  Need to get back to those traditional Western roots.
Awarded 17 Zoupa points

In several surveys, the overwhelming first choice for what makes Canada unique is multiculturalism. This, in a world collapsing into stupid, impoverishing hatreds, is the distinctly Canadian national project.