Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (11.8%)
British - Leave
7 (6.9%)
Other European - Remain
21 (20.6%)
Other European - Leave
6 (5.9%)
ROTW - Remain
36 (35.3%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (19.6%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Valmy

Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2026, 05:15:44 AMAndrew has been arrested

Holy shit. People might actually be arrested for the Epstein Files? Huh.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

crazy canuck

Quote from: Valmy on February 19, 2026, 10:34:43 AM
Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2026, 05:15:44 AMAndrew has been arrested

Holy shit. People might actually be arrested for the Epstein Files? Huh.

In a number of countries not named USA
Awarded 17 Zoupa points

In several surveys, the overwhelming first choice for what makes Canada unique is multiculturalism. This, in a world collapsing into stupid, impoverishing hatreds, is the distinctly Canadian national project.

garbon

Quote from: HVC on February 19, 2026, 10:25:37 AMVery long term, like history books looking back. She's too well liked to those alive during her reign. If Diana couldn't do it nothing can.

In my neighborhood, someone had put up an image of the queen on a tree I think for the platinum jubilee. By January 2023, someone had written across her "dead imperial genocider".
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

crazy canuck

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 19, 2026, 09:24:01 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 19, 2026, 08:32:16 AMHe was arrested for the disclosure of state secrets.  Unknown whether this is information that came to light when the US files were made public or some other source.

If it was the DOJ files, the again we need to ask what the hell were the Americans doing all those years.

Protecting the rich and powerful, duh. Here in America, we don't believe in silly things like "holding the wealthy accountable" or "the rule of law applies to everyone."

Seems that way

Garbon, yes the UK is not blameless in the failure to act. But we know for sure that the American Department of Justice had all of this information for years and did NOTHING.
Awarded 17 Zoupa points

In several surveys, the overwhelming first choice for what makes Canada unique is multiculturalism. This, in a world collapsing into stupid, impoverishing hatreds, is the distinctly Canadian national project.

Sheilbh

Quote from: garbon on February 19, 2026, 09:43:53 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 19, 2026, 08:32:16 AMHe was arrested for the disclosure of state secrets.  Unknown whether this is information that came to light when the US files were made public or some other source.

If it was the DOJ files, the again we need to ask what the hell were the Americans doing all those years.

It might be treasonous (-_-) but if this is the state of the UK, in that it could never find out anything about multiple, prominent figures that were disclosing state secrets, then it should let another nation take it over. It would clear be incapable of looking after its own national interests.
Also in relation to Andrew specifically I think all the evidence is that the British state knew exactly who he was and deployed him accordingly.

His specialism was schmoozing autocrats in the Caucasus, Central Asia and the Gulf on behalf of British business, plus trade enjoying  for shadier but profitable industry.

That's doing helpful stuff for British interests, while keeping the heavy hitters a little bit clean.
Let's bomb Russia!

Jacob

Seen on the internet:

"There's only one option now for Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. Join Reform plc as Minister of Child Protection"

The Brain

Please Baldrick, you're going to be an MP! I'll just put fraud and sexual deviancy.
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Legbiter

Posted using 100% recycled electrons.

Valmy

Quote from: Legbiter on February 19, 2026, 04:12:38 PMIs he being held in the Tower of London? :hmm:

Everyone gather at Tower Hill for the beheading!
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

HVC

Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

mongers

"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Sheilbh

This story keeps going (to note, the Guardian is one of the papers that ran with the briefing from Labour sources about a Russian hack) - I suspect the Sunday Times will have more given it's about their reporters. But I think this is really despicable - as I say I think it is really problematic in a democratic society.

The line about creating "a body of evidence that could be packaged up for use in the media in order to create narratives that would proactively undermine any future attacks on Labour Together" while passing false information about journalists to the intelligence agencies is profoundly sinister:
QuoteLabour minister falsely linked journalists to 'pro-Kremlin' network in emails to GCHQ
Exclusive: Josh Simons pressed intelligence officials to investigate reporters, in emails described as 'McCarthyite smear'
Henry Dyer and Dan Sabbagh
Fri 20 Feb 2026 09.00 GMT

A Labour minister who claimed to be "surprised" and "furious" at a PR agency's work to investigate journalists on his behalf had been personally involved in naming them to British intelligence officials and falsely linking them to pro-Russian propaganda, the Guardian can reveal.

Josh Simons, who was running the thinktank Labour Together at the time, was also involved in telling security officials that another journalist was "living with" the daughter of a former adviser to Jeremy Corbyn. Officials were told by Simons' team that the former adviser was "suspected of links to Russian intelligence".

The extraordinary disclosures are contained in emails that Simons and his chief of staff at Labour Together sent to the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC), a division of the spy agency GCHQ, in 2024. A spokesperson for Simons, a Cabinet Office minister, said: "These claims are untrue."

The emails, seen by the Guardian, lay out in detail what Simons and his team wrote to intelligence officials in an effort to get them to investigate the sourcing behind a story in the Sunday Times about Labour Together's failure to disclose political donations.

When informed by the Guardian about what had been communicated about them to intelligence officials, some of those named in the emails accused Simons of orchestrating a "McCarthyite smear" campaign that left them feeling "violated".

Simons commissioned an American lobbying and public affairs agency, APCO Worldwide, in late 2023 to investigate the "sourcing, funding and origin" behind the story.

He has in recent days claimed he was disturbed to find the APCO report had delved into unnecessary information about one of the Sunday Times journalists. But the emails show how, weeks after receiving the report, he was involved in naming the same journalist in an email to intelligence officials.

Simons and his chief of staff at the thinktank, Ben Szreter, told the NCSC they suspected the Sunday Times article may be linked to a wider "coordinated effort to discredit" Labour Together in order to undermine Keir Starmer and his then chief adviser, Morgan McSweeney.

Simons has been facing calls to resign over his decision to commission the APCO report into the story, which revealed fresh details about the £730,000 of undeclared donations to Labour Together.

The Electoral Commission had fined the thinktank more than £14,000 for failing to declare the donations. At the time of the undeclared donations, Labour Together was run by McSweeney. He used it in an effort to defeat Corbyn's leftwing faction of the party and propel Starmer to power.

Simons is under investigation by the Cabinet Office's propriety and ethics team, which is looking into his role in commissioning and disseminating the APCO report. His spokesperson declined to say whether Simons had disclosed his emails with intelligence officials, which cover a two-week period in January and February 2024, to the Cabinet Office team investigating him.

Facing growing pressure in recent days, Simons has said in statements to the press that he was "surprised", "shocked", "distressed" and "furious" to discover the report he commissioned had "extended beyond the contract by including unnecessary information about Gabriel Pogrund", a journalist at the Sunday Times. He added that the information relating to Pogrund had been "immediately removed" by Labour Together before the report was passed on to intelligence officials.

However, the emails seen by the Guardian show that when Simons and Szreter passed the report to intelligence officials, they named Pogrund and his Sunday Times colleague Harry Yorke and suggested their story could be linked to a Russian disinformation campaign.

They also passed on highly personal information about Paul Holden, a freelance reporter who was credited in the Sunday Times report. In one email, Simons told officials that material published by the Sunday Times may be linked to "people known to be operating in a pro-Kremlin propaganda network with links to Russian intelligence".

There is no credible evidence any of the journalists were involved in a pro-Russian campaign, or that their story, published in November 2023, was anything other than a public interest report on the prominent thinktank's breach of electoral law.

'Likeliest culprit is the Russian state'

The emails show Simons approached the spy agency in January 2024 in an apparent attempt to persuade it to investigate the sourcing behind the Sunday Times story.

Earlier that month, Simons had received the 58-page dossier he had commissioned from APCO. The contract stipulated that APCO would, for £36,000, provide "a body of evidence that could be packaged up for use in the media in order to create narratives that would proactively undermine any future attacks on Labour Together".

As the investigative news site Democracy for Sale revealed earlier this month, APCO's report suggested – without evidence – that the Sunday Times story was based on data hacked from the Electoral Commission, which it linked to Russia.

On 23 January 2024, Simons contacted the NCSC with information. A source close to Simons told the Guardian the approach was "to report concerns" that information in Holden's book may have been obtained following an illegal hack.

When officials requested further information, the emails show, Simons replied: "I will review your questions with my team immediately and come back to you as soon as possible."

Two days later, his chief of staff, Szreter, emailed the intelligence officials a response to their questions, attaching a truncated version of the APCO report and copying Simons into the thread.

Szreter's email to the NCSC was written under the direction of Simons, according to a source close to the Labour minister. The chief of staff was "basically a PA", the source said, and his emails to the NCSC paraphrased and quoted excerpts of the APCO report. A second source confirmed Szreter's email was "drawn directly" from the report.

The email sketched a theory about the origins of the Sunday Times's story on Labour Together, which he wrote was a "thinktank close to senior Labour party figures including Sir Keir Starmer and his adviser, Morgan McSweeney".

The email noted the Sunday Times story had been "written by Gabriel Pogrund and Harry Yorke" and pointed out it had credited Holden as having provided documents, which were also going to form the basis of a book by Holden and articles to be published by an American journalist.

"We suspect that the articles may be a coordinated effort to discredit Labour Together in order to undermine Mr McSweeney and, by extension, Mr Starmer in the run-up to next year's general election," wrote Szreter, who is now a Labour special adviser.

"We do not believe that any of the sensitive and closely guarded Labour Together information was leaked by an insider. We believe we have been the victim of a hack by 'hostile actors'. As the information was disseminated to pro-Russian journalists linked to other 'hack and leak' operations, we believe that the likeliest culprit is the Russian state, or proxies of the Russian state."

By then, GCHQ had identified China – rather than Russia – as being behind the hack of the Electoral Commission. In their emails, Simons and Szreter made other spurious connections to Russia, based on Holden's private life.

"We understand that Paul Holden, the pro-Corbyn investigative journalist who obtained the documents, is currently living with Jessica Murray," Szreter wrote. "Jessica Murray is daughter of Andrew Murray, a political adviser to Corbyn during his leadership of the Labour party. Andrew Murray is a highly controversial figure who is suspected of links to Russian intelligence by MI5."

In the author's note of his recently published book, Holden discloses "in the interests of transparency" that he has a family relationship with Andrew Murray, who is his partner's father.

However, at the time of Labour Together's emails to the NCSC, Holden's relationship with Murray's daughter was not publicly known. Contacted by the Guardian, Holden said that due to his role working on sensitive investigations, he had taken steps to protect the identity of his home address.

"It is hugely disturbing [that] this investigation even found out where I lived and with whom," Holden said. He accused Simons of seeking to smear him in an "absurd and chilling" episode that "could have had real material consequences for ongoing sensitive work".

A source familiar with APCO's investigation said that Trace IQ, a fraud investigation tool, had been used to identify Holden's home address and the names of other residents living there. APCO has been approached for comment.

In his emails with the intelligence officials, Simons also alleged that Holden, who is a member of the National Union of Journalists, was "part of a far-left network ... which disseminates pro-Russian propaganda".

Holden told the Guardian the claims were absurd, saying he and his colleagues had "faced legal and extra-legal threats" as a result of their investigations into Russian oligarchs. He added: "[I think] it shows just how scared Labour Together were about my investigations into what really mattered: the deeply suspect circumstances around the failure to declare £730k in donations in violation of the law."

Holden's partner, Jessica Murray, said she was a "private person" and felt "deeply violated and vulnerable" after learning of the efforts to find where she, Holden and their young family lived. "To then connect it to false allegations about Russian criminality, which are then relayed to the security services, is disturbing, creepy and deplorable," she said.

Andrew Murray said: "The allegation that I have or have ever had any links with Russian intelligence is a lie."

He added: "This appears to be a McCarthyite smear by Josh Simons, who is clearly unfit to hold any form of government or public office, to attempt to divert attention from the failures of Labour Together to comply with electoral law and to prompt a spurious security service investigation based on nothing more than innuendo and falsehoods."

Allegations briefed to papers

After a brief assessment, the NCSC decided not to investigate the allegations made by Labour Together about the origins of the Sunday Times story. In the emails, Simons appeared frustrated when intelligence officials did not address his concerns.

In an email on 31 January 2024, he told security officials: "Our evidence suggests that sensitive personal and political information obtained in this hack that was only held by the Electoral Commission and our lawyers has been disseminated to people known to be operating in a pro-Kremlin propaganda network with links to Russian intelligence.

"This has serious implications for British democracy and national security. The information obtained, we believe, could be used to destabilise and disrupt the UK electoral process." He implored the officials to take action, adding that Labour Together's information revealed the risk of "an attack on the UK political realm ahead of a general election".

Simons added: "If NCSC do not wish to engage further, could you advise on the appropriate public body who can help to ensure Labour Together has not been caught up in a hack by a hostile actor on the regulator of UK election."

The Guardian understands that the NCSC had a meeting with Simons, but ultimately advised him they would not investigate his report. They also pointed out that information leaked to journalists could have been obtained in various ways.

Simons appears to have been undeterred. In the following days, Labour Together and its representatives are understood to have briefed national newspapers – including the Guardian – with allegations about Holden, hacked material and Russia.

At the time, Holden was approached for comment. None of the allegations Labour Together was circulating about him were published by any news organisation. Holden recently showed the Guardian his source materials, which indicate the story was based on files leaked from the Labour party by whistleblowers.
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

To follow up on that story in the Guardian by Henry Dyer (an investigations correspondent) - today the Guardian are reporting that Tom Harper, the lobbyist for APCO commissioned to provide the initial smear, stated making inquiries about Dyer as recently as last week (presumably once he became aware a story was coming) and was suggesting to people - again with zero evidence - that it was part of a wider pro-Russian (and possibly far left) campaign.

Separately there's been a poll for the by-election on Thursday - constituencies level polls are notoriously difficult and not necessarily very helpful (it was also, interestingly, paid for by Green Party donor Brian Eno :o).

Anyway poll found that the Greens were in the lead with 20%, Reform on 18% and Labour on 17%. This seems pretty in line with expectations and plausible given everything we know about the seat which is very weird. It's a bit of a Frankenstein's seat and I think the most changed in the region following at the last boundary review.

But given that it's so close I think Reform are making mistakes and might well show in this election. First they picked a candidate who is an internet famous ex-academic (started as a well-regarded researcher into the "radical right" and now is the radical right) while the Greens picked a local plumber. Then Reform announced their "shadow cabinet" or spokespeople for the big portfolios which is very ex-Tory cabinet minister heavy. And just this week (the week before a big by-election) and Farage is in the Indian Ocean doing social media videos about the Chagos islands. It just all feels very much like decisions that play well in a particular part of the online right.

It's a US analogy but it feels a bit like they're sliding a little bit from Trump to DeSantis - but it also reminds me of the mid-2010s left here when I think people on the left misunderstood what was happening online/on Twitter for the wider country. There's lots of time and they can recover but I think these types of mis-steps plus their deep unpopularity and tactical voting is severely underpriced in a lot of commentary (and I think it might psychologically unhinge the right - as I think the most likely next goverment is quite possibly a Labour-led coalition). On the tactical voting, I thought this was interesting (and I think emphasises why Jenrick's whole pitch of just be more like Reform was the wrong strategy - because Tory and Reform voters seem quite different here):


(Also really, really struck by just how fungible the Lib Dem vote is.)
Let's bomb Russia!

Tonitrus

I'm just an outsider, but I've always seen the Lib Dems as rather fungible.  :P

garbon

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz6edwg06n1o

QuoteBBC sorry for airing racial slur shouted by guest with Tourette's at Baftas

The BBC has apologised for not editing out a racial slur from its Bafta Film Awards coverage after a guest with Tourette's syndrome shouted out when two black actors were on stage.

John Davidson, whose life story inspired the film I Swear, shouted the N-word as Sinners stars Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo presented the first prize of Sunday's ceremony.


The moment was not edited out of the BBC One broadcast, which was shown on a two-hour delay, and remained on BBC iPlayer on Monday morning before the ceremony was removed.

A BBC spokesperson said: "We apologise that this was not edited out prior to broadcast and it will now be removed from the version on BBC iPlayer."

The shout was audible in the broadcast, although many viewers would have struggled to make out the word.

Conservative Party leader Kemi Badenoch told Good Morning Britain, external the BBC had made "a horrible mistake" by not editing it out at the time, adding: "I think an apology is important, they need to explain why it wasn't bleeped out."

In its statement, the BBC said: "Some viewers may have heard strong and offensive language during the Bafta Film Awards.

"This arose from involuntary verbal tics associated with Tourette syndrome, and as explained during the ceremony it was not intentional."

Tourette's is characterised by sudden, involuntary and repetitive movements or sounds, known as tics.

Between 10% and 30% of people with the condition have tics that produce socially unacceptable words such as swearing, according to the Tourette's Action charity.

Davidson, a Tourette's campaigner from Galashiels in Scotland, who was made an MBE in 2019, shouted loudly several times before and during the Bafta ceremony.

Host Alan Cumming later told the audience: "You may have heard some strong and offensive language tonight. If you have seen the film I Swear, you will know that film is about the experience of a person with Tourette's syndrome.

"Tourette's syndrome is a disability and the tics you have heard tonight are involuntary, which means the person who has Tourette syndrome has no control over their language. We apologise if you were offended."

Davidson left the ceremony part-way through the proceedings, reportedly of his own accord, external.

Hannah Beachler, the production designer from the film Sinners, wrote on X:, external "The situation is almost impossible, but it happened 3 times that night, and one of the three times was directed at myself on the way to dinner after the show.

"I understand and deeply know why this is an impossible situation. I know we must handle this with grace and continue to push through.

"But what made the situation worse was the throw away apology of 'if you were offended' at the end of the show. Of course we were offended."


Jordan's former co-star on The Wire, Wendell Pierce, posted, external: "It's infuriating that the first reaction wasn't complete and full throated apologies to Delroy Lindo and Michael B Jordan.

"The insult to them takes priority. It doesn't matter the reasoning for the racist slur."


Oscar winner Jamie Foxx added in a comment posted on Instagram that the slur had been "unacceptable".

Speaking to BBC News afterwards, Robert Aramayo, who won best actor for playing Davidson in I Swear, said: "They're tics, he [Davidson] is ticking, and we have to understand that the way we perceive Tourette's is a joint responsibility.

"It's not shouting obscenities, it's not being abusive, it's Tourette's and they're tics.

"So if it can lead to a deeper understanding of Tourette's syndrome and what tics actually are, if our movie is a part of that conversation, then that's a really incredible thing."

Pippa McClounan, communications manager of Tourette's Action, told BBC News: "What we've got to try and remember is, as much as these words do cause hurt and shock in people, it's really vital that the public understands a fundamental truth about Tourette's syndrome, that the tics are involuntary, and they are in no way reflection of what that person is thinking and their beliefs.

"It's not a what their intention is or what their character's like. It's involuntary. It's a neurological condition. It's so complex to try and understand why this happens."

Such tics, called coprolalia, affect a minority of people with Tourette's, she said.

"This is what John lives with every day of his life. It's not just one occasion at an award ceremony. This is his life, and the backlash that he experiences throughout his life you see in the film.

"We hope that people who are reading and maybe commenting on it will also take the time to watch the film, learn about Tourette's, and understand the experiences behind those moments."

I Swear follows Davidson's struggle growing up with Tourette's in 1980s Scotland.

Davidson was awarded his MBE for his efforts to increase understanding of the condition and help families deal with it.

As well as best actor, Aramayo, from Hull, also received the Baftas' Rising Star prize, and I Swear won best casting.

I agree with the idea that it is an impossible situation but I also think BBC covered themselves in ineptitude. I know this involves two historically disadvantaged groups but I think it is hard not to come away feeling like BBC prioritise the needs and feelings of a white person with a disability over black attendees/audience.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.