Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

Sunak's launched his campaign, as you'd expect, with a slick US-style presidential pitch
https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1545426650032111616?s=21&t=_TFAcI6zNXBpXXFGdoC_xA

Although it is pretty good I hate the "Ready for Rishi" slogan though...

[crazy canuck]

One small quibble - it is possible to have ministers who are not also MPs.  It is rare, but it does happen.  For example, if a party elects no MPs from a particular region, it can be good politics to appoint an non MP from that region to cabinet.

A cabinet member can be appointed from the Canadian Senate / UK House of Lords, but that's far different from saying 'a non MP'.  A Prime Minister can't just appoint anyone off the street to cabinet.

First, I did not say someone off the street.

Second, there have been cabinet ministers appointed who were senators.

Third, the Constitution Act 1982 does not contain the language you suggest.  It could conceivably happen that someone other than a Senator could be appointed.  It would be completely inconceivable that someone from the House of Lords would be appointed.

[Barrister]

It would be completely inconceivable that someone from the House of Lords would be appointed.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/direct-ministerial-appointments-house-lords

[celedhring]

FWIW, in Spain cabinet ministers do not need to be MPs (Presidents do). They can effectively appoint anybody off the street, and we have a had a few leftfield ministers. Heavyweight ministries do tend to be given to MPs though.

[Jacob]

It would be completely inconceivable that someone from the House of Lords would be appointed.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/direct-ministerial-appointments-house-lords

Pretty sure CC is speaking of Canada. And I don't think Canada would appoint someone from the House of Lords.

[Barrister]

It would be completely inconceivable that someone from the House of Lords would be appointed.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/direct-ministerial-appointments-house-lords

Pretty sure CC is speaking of Canada. And I don't think Canada would appoint someone from the House of Lords.

We are speaking in the Brexit/UK thread, and cc has a long history of speaking out of his ass, so...

[celedhring]

Sunak's launched his campaign, as you'd expect, with a slick US-style presidential pitch
https://twitter.com/rishisunak/status/1545426650032111616?s=21&t=_TFAcI6zNXBpXXFGdoC_xA

Although it is pretty good I hate the "Ready for Rishi" slogan though...

Since I know very little of the field... who would you say is the least evil of the feasible candidates?

[Sheilbh]

FWIW, in Spain cabinet ministers do not need to be MPs (Presidents do). They can effectively appoint anybody off the street, and we have a had a few leftfield ministers. Heavyweight ministries do tend to be given to MPs though.

Yeah I think it's a big difference with Europe.

Alasdair Darling has an anecdote about EU EcoFin meetings during the financial crisis and talking about it with other ministers who were often not also MPs. He said they struggled to understand how you could be finance minister while also having to get elected and he couldn't understand how you couldn't

Ministers here have to be in parliament whether as lords or as MPs so that they can be held accountable by parliament (meaning the whole house, not just a committee). I think it's become more important in recent years because "urgent questions" have become a lot more common which is normally when there is a big story the opposition submits an urgent question and if the Speaker thinks it is important they'll grant time that day and require the ministry to send a minister to answer questions. 

[Sheilbh]

Since I know very little of the field... who would you say is the least evil of the feasible candidates?

My instinct would be Ben Wallace. He's a very old ally of Johnson's but is more Johnson 1.0 in his politics - he's a broadly centrist, one nation Tory. I think he's done a good job in Defence - he impressed on the evacuation of Kabul (about the only person in government who did) and Ukraine. I don't think he'd unpick our approach to Ukraine or China. He'd be the first PM who had previously been an MSP in Holyrood (he's English, but Scottish family served in the Scots Guard - including in Northern Ireland - etc) - so I think he'd also possibly be quite good on the union he has more of a sense for Scotland than Johnson, May or Cameron in my view. And from what I've read he's impressed European and American counterparts. He's the safe pair of hands candidate.

But then there's the country v party thing because I think he could do a Major and win the next election because I think in a competition between his military/Defence Secretary style of boring v Keir Starmer's lawyerly boring, Wallace might win. I also think he would be relatively competent and the government still have a big majority if they had a leader who had any idea what to do with it. I also think he has more of a defence than most for not resigning at any point in the last six months which is that there's a war in Europe and he had a job to do.

The other one I think might be least evil would be Penny Mordaunt but I don't really have a sense of her - I mainly know her from when she was on a diving reality TV show with Tom Daley.

Edit: But again I worry she might actually win the next election.

Edit: Also having said that I cannot emphasise enough how many no mark backbench MPs I've never heard of are "considering a run" so there may be some incredible candidates in the field I just don't know

[Josquius]

The news on the street is Johnson has his next job lined up. He's going to be working for the EU as lead negotiator on Ukraines accession.

...


Not really.
But it wouldn't be that weird would it? :p

[Barrister]

The news on the street is Johnson has his next job lined up. He's going to be working for the EU as lead negotiator on Ukraines accession.

...


Not really.
But it wouldn't be that weird would it? :p

He's shown an amazing ability to fail upwards, so it wouldn't really be shocking at all.

[Sheilbh]

Although given what's been reported about his personal finances I imagine his immediate priority for the next few years will be to finish his book on Shakespeare, get back his £200k a year Daily Telegraph column and find some after-dinner events in the US.

At least he has a little time to find somewhere to move. In the 70s the civil service discussed arranging for a flat for ex-PMs/chancellors while they found somewhere to live or ended the tenancy on whoever they'd rented their house to - it was rejected. I think the civil service note said something like "even Mr Heath has friends"

Edit: Nadine Dorries considering a run

[Sheilbh]

If nothing else the Sunak launch video shows the Tories have moved on from the days of Greg Knight's election campaign in 2017:

Although many backbenchers - even in Sunak's camp - are still learning about technology

[crazy canuck]

It would be completely inconceivable that someone from the House of Lords would be appointed.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/direct-ministerial-appointments-house-lords

Pretty sure CC is speaking of Canada. And I don't think Canada would appoint someone from the House of Lords.

We are speaking in the Brexit/UK thread, and cc has a long history of speaking out of his ass, so...

Sorry, you were talking about Senate appointees in the same sentence, so I assumed you were talking about how things work in Canada.

I also referenced how things work under the Canadian Constitution, so it was a bit odd that you tried to correct me with a reference to how tings work in the UK.

[Barrister]

It would be completely inconceivable that someone from the House of Lords would be appointed.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/direct-ministerial-appointments-house-lords

Pretty sure CC is speaking of Canada. And I don't think Canada would appoint someone from the House of Lords.

We are speaking in the Brexit/UK thread, and cc has a long history of speaking out of his ass, so...

Sorry, you were talking about Senate appointees in the same sentence, so I assumed you were talking about how things work in Canada.

I also referenced how things work under the Canadian Constitution, so it was a bit odd that you tried to correct me with a reference to how tings work in the UK.

You're just amazing cc.

Here's the initial exchange:

One small quibble - it is possible to have ministers who are not also MPs.  It is rare, but it does happen.  For example, if a party elects no MPs from a particular region, it can be good politics to appoint an non MP from that region to cabinet.

A cabinet member can be appointed from the Canadian Senate / UK House of Lords, but that's far different from saying 'a non MP'.  A Prime Minister can't just appoint anyone off the street to cabinet.

There's nothing to suggest you were talking about solely under the Canadian constitution.  This is the Brexit/UK thread after all.  And I expressly referenced the UK House of Lords, so obviously I was talking about the UK (since it would be absurd for a UK Lord to be appointed to the Canadian cabinet, and since Canada doesn't have Lords).

It would be so easy for you to say "huh - I didn't know sometimes Lords could be made cabinet members.  Interesting".  But you're just incapable of doing so.

At this point I enjoy tweaking you on making minor errors on Languish.  Not because they're important (they are, after all, minor errors).  But because you can never admit that they're errors.