Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

So where we at with this shit show?

In this apparent democracy, the BBC will only debate Johnson vs Corbyn, nobody else.

To split hairs it is really a constitutional monarchy with democratic elements. One of those is her Majesty's official loyal opposition and their leader is Corbyn; he even gets paid for it 

Also televised "debates" are populist dumbing-down shite and should be ignored.

[Sheilbh]

The Languish Brits' small c-conservatism strikes again. United in opposition to the Fixed Term Parliaments Act and suspicion of these debates

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yeah 

But, if constitutional changes are required then don't make them up as you go along and pass half-baked laws.

[Richard Hakluyt]

One that really worries me is that we find ourselves in the position where Scotland gets an independence referendum every few years, with a requirement of 50%+1 to leave the union. This is absolute madness and I really hope that when they do vote to leave there will be a substantial majority in favour; otherwise the prognosis for the first years of an independent Scotlann is very grim.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah 

But, if constitutional changes are required then don't make them up as you go along and pass half-baked laws.

Maybe.

Incidentally I agree with the normal analysis that debates are only really a big risk for the favourite and think Johnson's crazy to be doing any. He wasn't great with these in the Tory leadership and ultimately he's a charlatan with an after-dinner speaking style.

I suspect Corbyn will beat him.

[Josquius]

I agree with general opposition to the debates. They ate indeed a stupid Americanism which really feed into the footballisation of politics that is a major problem these days.

But if they are to happen then I agree with the lib dems at least that they should be included.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yeah 

But, if constitutional changes are required then don't make them up as you go along and pass half-baked laws.

Maybe.

Incidentally I agree with the normal analysis that debates are only really a big risk for the favourite and think Johnson's crazy to be doing any. He wasn't great with these in the Tory leadership and ultimately he's a charlatan with an after-dinner speaking style.

I suspect Corbyn will beat him.

Corbyn has the considerable advantage that he actually believes in something apart from himself 

[garbon]

stupid Americanism

How sad that all these ancient and venerable cultures can't resist the allure of American customs.

[Valmy]

I agree with general opposition to the debates. They ate indeed a stupid Americanism which really feed into the footballisation of politics that is a major problem these days.

But if they are to happen then I agree with the lib dems at least that they should be included.

Hey! They have them in Canada as well.

But it makes little sense in a system where very few people will actually see Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn on a ballot. I mean say what you want about the United States but we don't do something stupid like have debates between Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy before every Congressional election. At least when I see 28 Democrats debating in the Presidential Primaries I will at least be checking one of their names come March.

[Sheilbh]

I agree with general opposition to the debates. They ate indeed a stupid Americanism which really feed into the footballisation of politics that is a major problem these days.

But if they are to happen then I agree with the lib dems at least that they should be included.

Yeah I would exclude the nationalists (to inevitable fury) on the basis that you have to be an "all-country" (excluding NI) party. If you're not in the running to be PM you shouldn't be included.

But if we have them there should probably be a separate Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish debate with the respective party leaders.

[Sheilbh]

stupid Americanism

How sad that all these ancient and venerable cultures can't resist the allure of American customs.

It is (another) thing we can blame on David Cameron

[garbon]

I agree with general opposition to the debates. They ate indeed a stupid Americanism which really feed into the footballisation of politics that is a major problem these days.

But if they are to happen then I agree with the lib dems at least that they should be included.

Hey! They have them in Canada as well.

But it makes little sense in a system where very few people will actually see Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn on a ballot. I mean say what you want about the United States but we don't do something stupid like have debates between Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy before every Congressional election. At least when I see 28 Democrats debating in the Presidential Primaries I will at least be checking one of their names come March.

On the other hand, it isn't as though voting for one's MP solely consists of evaluating that MP. There's always an eye to who will become the PM as a result.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah and this time that is fairly decisive for me. I really, really like my MP

[Valmy]

On the other hand, it isn't as though voting for one's MP solely consists of evaluating that MP. There's always an eye to who will become the PM as a result.

True. But it is a pretty important thing to do, especially as British MPs have shown themselves more than capable of revolting against their own party depending on their own...um...conscience...or political calculations. Or changing parties. Or forming a new breakaway splinter party. Whatever.

Or at least they did plenty of that during the last Parliament.

[Josquius]

Bring back the old pre 1970ish system where party's weren't mentioned on ballots.