Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Valmy

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Tamas on October 16, 2018, 08:11:11 AM
QuoteThis is what the prime minister's spokesman said about the cabinet meeting.

She said she is committed to securing a Brexit that delivers on the referendum result, safeguards jobs and security and which preserves our union.

Solution: EEA.  Does all those things.
Problem solved.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

Ok I find this confusing. Are they bound to leave the EEA as part of the Article whatever that they invoked? Or is it just assumed they would?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Tamas

Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 10:03:55 AM
Ok I find this confusing. Are they bound to leave the EEA as part of the Article whatever that they invoked? Or is it just assumed they would?

The whole point of this shitstorm was to TAKE BACK TEH CONTROL. You can't take control back with the EEA.

There is, apparently, a golden age of richdom waiting for us as soon as we can drop tariffs on US stuff from like 2% to 0%. EEA is not an option.


Valmy

Ok the UK has got to stop being compared to Trump. Trump has not been this stupid with regards to trade, He blusters and postures and then changes very little. The UK is pointlessly self-destructive.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Tamas on October 16, 2018, 10:10:40 AM
The whole point of this shitstorm was to TAKE BACK TEH CONTROL. You can't take control back with the EEA.

The impossible trinity is economic stability, no intra-UK Irish border, and respect the results of the referendum. EEA actually does all three.
The referendum answered exactly one question: should the UK leave the EU?  Withdrawing from the EU and re-entering EEA does that.

"Take back control" is a slogan, not a result. It is also completely meaningless. "Control" is not defined. Events of the past two years certainly indicate that a decision to leave does not increase "control" in any meaningful way however defined.

If Brexit proponents meant something greater or different than simply exiting the EU, that should have been specified in the referendum.  It wasn't so there is no valid objection to EEA.

It's true that EEA membership outside the EU is entirely dominated in game theory terms by membership in the EU but that just shows that voting leave was a bad idea.  EEA is the best of all remaining available alternatives and the only one that meets May's criteria.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Valmy

What is the probability of that scenario playing out Minsky? Because that would be a rather Trumpian result.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

A lot of the motivation for Brexit though was over free movement of people - many voters apparently wanted more control over who enters the country.  Membership in the EEA means allowing EU and EEA members fulls rights to enter the UK and reside there.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

Quote from: Barrister on October 16, 2018, 11:24:48 AM
A lot of the motivation for Brexit though was over free movement of people - many voters apparently wanted more control over who enters the country.  Membership in the EEA means allowing EU and EEA members fulls rights to enter the UK and reside there.

But, as Minsky says, nothing in the referendum specifically said anything about that.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: Valmy on October 16, 2018, 11:25:35 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 16, 2018, 11:24:48 AM
A lot of the motivation for Brexit though was over free movement of people - many voters apparently wanted more control over who enters the country.  Membership in the EEA means allowing EU and EEA members fulls rights to enter the UK and reside there.

But, as Minsky says, nothing in the referendum specifically said anything about that.

Indeed, nothing in the actual vote was about what 'Brexit' must look like. Just that they didn't want Britain to be an EU member state.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

But witless May...
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Barrister on October 16, 2018, 11:24:48 AM
A lot of the motivation for Brexit though was over free movement of people - many voters apparently wanted more control over who enters the country. 

Then there should have been a referendum about that.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Tamas

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 16, 2018, 11:13:19 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 16, 2018, 10:10:40 AM
The whole point of this shitstorm was to TAKE BACK TEH CONTROL. You can't take control back with the EEA.

The impossible trinity is economic stability, no intra-UK Irish border, and respect the results of the referendum. EEA actually does all three.
The referendum answered exactly one question: should the UK leave the EU?  Withdrawing from the EU and re-entering EEA does that.

"Take back control" is a slogan, not a result. It is also completely meaningless. "Control" is not defined. Events of the past two years certainly indicate that a decision to leave does not increase "control" in any meaningful way however defined.

If Brexit proponents meant something greater or different than simply exiting the EU, that should have been specified in the referendum.  It wasn't so there is no valid objection to EEA.

It's true that EEA membership outside the EU is entirely dominated in game theory terms by membership in the EU but that just shows that voting leave was a bad idea.  EEA is the best of all remaining available alternatives and the only one that meets May's criteria.

There you go with logics again.

Zoupa

EEA is not going to happen. The tories are more concerned with their byzantine plots and powerplays than good governance.

I'm 90% sure of a no-deal Brexit at this point. I'm one of the 6 ppl who voted "Other European - Leave" in the original poll of this thread so I'm quite fine with it. I've despised the UK's european attitude ever since Thatcher's "I want my money back", so fuck them.

What was the result of the Scottish referendum, 40-45% voted for independence? Give it 5 years of no-deal Brexit and the next one will be 55-60% voting for independence.

You reap what you sow, stupid rosbiffs.

garbon

Quote from: Zoupa on October 16, 2018, 12:38:38 PM
What was the result of the Scottish referendum, 40-45% voted for independence? Give it 5 years of no-deal Brexit and the next one will be 55-60% voting for independence.

Of course, they'd pretty fucking stupid given that Scotland is incredibly deep in debt and can't stand on its own two feet.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.