Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Jacob]

You didn't really need to post that as your stance is a given.

You didn't really need to post that as your stance is a given.

[garbon]

You didn't really need to post that as your stance is a given.

You didn't really need to post that as your stance is a given.

True, my stance on Tyr hating on London is well known.

[Richard Hakluyt]

It would be beneficial for all if the economy could be spread out a bit more. But the predominance of London has centuries of history behind it....so it would take some creative thinking and considerable comitment from our political class to change anything. The current bunch would struggle to change a lightbulb so I guess we will have to keep on muddling along.

[Duque de Bragança]

London would still do well to have an infrastructure upgrade even if not part of the EU.

London gets way too many infrastructure upgrades.
Most of the country doesn't even have electrified railways yet.
Just a fraction of London investment could go a long way in the north.

Like this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2
Or this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Powerhouse_Rail

[garbon]

To be fair, HS2 is largely a benefit for London. I mean when the bit between Manchester and London is built, that just makes it easier to live up in Manchester and commute down (as I think they said something like just over an hour between the two).

[Josquius]

HS2 is a huge help for Birmingham. Moderately so for Manchester and to a lesser extent  Leeds if they ever get around to it.
It'll both give Brummies access to the London job market and allow Birminghams economy to tap into Londons network effect.

Northern powerhouse rail is a joke though. Properly done it would be exactly what would be needed to help Liverpool and Manchester operate as one with tight links to Yorkshire too.

However. A big thing missed in these projects is they just connect cities. Londons big advantage is within the city it is so well connected. In the north we have OK connections between big cities. Though be in a small town 20 miles outside one of them and you may as well be in the hebrides.

[garbon]

Isn't it saving like 30 minutes for Birmingham?

[Josquius]

Yes. More importantly though it gives them a huge capacity boost and will allow more services at stops along the London-Birmingham route

[Duque de Bragança]

However. A big thing missed in these projects is they just connect cities. Londons big advantage is within the city it is so well connected. In the north we have OK connections between big cities. Though be in a small town 20 miles outside one of them and you may as well be in the hebrides.

High-speed lines can only really connect big cities if they are to bring a profit, or at the very least not be a huge drain on the budget.

Smaller cities and towns are better served with railway lines upgrades such as electrification, signaling improvements, double-track railways, new pendular trains or just regular maintenance and renewal.
Densely populated and  middle/small-sized England  is ideal for high-speed train actually, though for ideological reasons, train was not a popular investment in '80s, thanks to you know whom. 

As to live in Manchester and live in London, since it would join the "one-hour-away from London by train" club, this only really works if the train calls at the city centre railway station. Not always the case in France and Germany, but hopefully not the case for England.

[garbon]

Manchester Picadilly and London Euston are both central stations.

[Duque de Bragança]

Manchester Picadilly and London Euston are both central stations.

I should have made myself clearer, building non-central stations really was the province of smaller cities, not a metropolis like Paris or London or even a regional capital like Manchester, but the East Midlands Hub seems awfully similar in concept, but then a choice had to be made between Derby and Nottingham, or both as it happened.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Midlands_Hub_railway_station

[Zanza]

Best case: May openly defies the Brexiteers, agrees to some kind of EEA lite with some kind of minor limitation to freedom of movement, and can pass this with the sane parts of Labour and Tories that put country over party. The Brexiteers immediately launch a new campaign and the relationship  to Europe stays in the centre of British politics for the next decade.

Worst case: May falls over no deal and is blamed together the EU for failure by the Brexiteers and the press. In the ensuing chaos after no deal, the Conservatives elect a populist strongman who establishes a deregulatory, illiberal, xenophobe government, similar to the Trump administration. This leads to new tensions with Scotland and sectarian strife in Northern Ireland.

[mongers]

Best case: May openly defies the Brexiteers, agrees to some kind of EEA lite with some kind of minor limitation to freedom of movement, and can pass this with the sane parts of Labour and Tories that put country over party. The Brexiteers immediately launch a new campaign and the relationship  to Europe stays in the centre of British politics for the next decade.

Worst case: May falls over no deal and is blamed together the EU for failure by the Brexiteers and the press. In the ensuing chaos after no deal, the Conservatives elect a populist strongman who establishes a deregulatory, illiberal, xenophobe government, similar to the Trump administration. This leads to new tensions with Scotland and sectarian strife in Northern Ireland.

So cloud cuckoo-land vs 'game of thronesville' ?

[Maladict]

So cloud cuckoo-land vs 'game of thronesville' ?

How's that for a referendum ballot?   

[Josquius]

Hoping the minor freedom of movement limitations are basically stuff we already have the legal right to do or are already a unofficial fact.