Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Brain]

or there will be a second referendum in which the public can decide whether to have a Canada-style deal, the Chequers halfway house or a return to the EU.

I don't think the British public can decide any of those things.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Just checking in to reiterate that making major national decisions (like Scotland leaving the UK, or Britain leaving the EU), should never be subjected to a simple majority rules referendum. One instant in history a bunch of people can choose something stupid and they end up causing dire consequences for untold millions of future generations. For this level of national decision I am glad the United States has so many blockers in its government system. 3/4ths of the states to alter the constitution and it requires 2/3rds of the Senate to enter into treaties.

Completely agree. Ridiculous that the UK is moving forward with this insanity with so weak of a popular mandate. I mean if everybody knew it was going to be a hard Brexit would they still have gotten the same percentage vote? The Brexiteers were able to promise 10,000 unicorns and all sorts of things because nobody knew what the hell Brexit meant.  How can a vague election with a narrow margin of victory be a determining factor for something like this?

You are both making the mistake of thinking the referendum is binding on Parliament.  It is not.  The only reason the referendum has any force is because the MPs in Parliament choose to act as if it does.  Brexit would end if that was the will of parliament.  But both Labour and the Conservatives seem quite content to watch this slow motion train wreck unfold.

No--I'm fully aware it is non-binding on Parliament and I never said otherwise. What I said was folly was holding referendums to decide the future of the country via thin margins. While it may not be legally binding, Parliament has made clear in all of these refendums, both Scottish Independence and Brexit that it basically was going to do whatever the outcome of the refendum desired. In that sense Britain is indeed allowing a small portion of the electorate to decide the future of the entire country for decades to come, based off a snap judgment of a disinterested electorate at one date in history.

In the lead up to the actual vote I actually talked about why does Parliament feel bound by it and basically every  Brit you could shake a stick at indicated it'd be "unthinkable" for Parliament to not abide by the results of the referendum, so clearly there is a weird national legitimacy for such stupid decision making.

[Tamas]

Why would a "no deal" exit require them to close oof whole motorways?

It's the only emergency plan that has surfaced so far. This is in case custom checks get reintroduced at Dover: they will use the connecting motorway as queuing/parking space for the lorries. They have already done so in the past.

[crazy canuck]

Why would a "no deal" exit require them to close oof whole motorways?

It's the only emergency plan that has surfaced so far. This is in case custom checks get reintroduced at Dover: they will use the connecting motorway as queuing/parking space for the lorries. They have already done so in the past.

Plus, re-erecting the border with Ireland

[Josquius]

I really wonder whats going on in the Irish underworld.
The IRA and Unionist terrorists must surely be stocking up and preparing.

[crazy canuck]

I really wonder whats going on in the Irish underworld.
The IRA and Unionist terrorists must surely be stocking up and preparing.

You mean so they can jointly march on London?

[crazy canuck]

Just checking in to reiterate that making major national decisions (like Scotland leaving the UK, or Britain leaving the EU), should never be subjected to a simple majority rules referendum. One instant in history a bunch of people can choose something stupid and they end up causing dire consequences for untold millions of future generations. For this level of national decision I am glad the United States has so many blockers in its government system. 3/4ths of the states to alter the constitution and it requires 2/3rds of the Senate to enter into treaties.

Completely agree. Ridiculous that the UK is moving forward with this insanity with so weak of a popular mandate. I mean if everybody knew it was going to be a hard Brexit would they still have gotten the same percentage vote? The Brexiteers were able to promise 10,000 unicorns and all sorts of things because nobody knew what the hell Brexit meant.  How can a vague election with a narrow margin of victory be a determining factor for something like this?

You are both making the mistake of thinking the referendum is binding on Parliament.  It is not.  The only reason the referendum has any force is because the MPs in Parliament choose to act as if it does.  Brexit would end if that was the will of parliament.  But both Labour and the Conservatives seem quite content to watch this slow motion train wreck unfold.

No--I'm fully aware it is non-binding on Parliament and I never said otherwise. What I said was folly was holding referendums to decide the future of the country via thin margins. While it may not be legally binding, Parliament has made clear in all of these refendums, both Scottish Independence and Brexit that it basically was going to do whatever the outcome of the refendum desired. In that sense Britain is indeed allowing a small portion of the electorate to decide the future of the entire country for decades to come, based off a snap judgment of a disinterested electorate at one date in history.

In the lead up to the actual vote I actually talked about why does Parliament feel bound by it and basically every  Brit you could shake a stick at indicated it'd be "unthinkable" for Parliament to not abide by the results of the referendum, so clearly there is a weird national legitimacy for such stupid decision making.

The point being that there is nothing structurally deficient - it is a political decision to work around how the system is supposed to function.  Something to which the US has no special immunity.

[Josquius]

I really wonder whats going on in the Irish underworld.
The IRA and Unionist terrorists must surely be stocking up and preparing.

You mean so they can jointly march on London?

More that the Irish border being reinstated shits all over the good friday agreement. This will prompt the IRA in to action and the unionists should know this and be preparing in advance.

[Valmy]

The Good Friday Agreement problem is so obvious and potentially disastrous that I am sure it was discussed and carefully debated during the referendum. I mean I presume the British remember something of their entire history from 1916 to 1998.

[crazy canuck]

The Good Friday Agreement problem is so obvious and potentially disastrous that I am sure it was discussed and carefully debated during the referendum.

[Josquius]

The Good Friday Agreement problem is so obvious and potentially disastrous that I am sure it was discussed and carefully debated during the referendum. I mean I presume the British remember something of their entire history from 1916 to 1998.

This video says it all

https://twitter.com/channel4news/status/935908050354962433?lang=en

[Valmy]

This just shows the ultimate failure of political terrorism to have a lasting impact.

[Syt]

Had this in the Rump Residency thread first, but I think it should go here.

[celedhring]

Wait, Trump gets things done? 

And in the case of the other two, it's not a good thing.

[Tamas]

THEY MAKE THE TRAINS RUN ON TIME!

Jesus Christ, there's nothing new under the sun.