Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (11.8%)
British - Leave
7 (6.9%)
Other European - Remain
21 (20.6%)
Other European - Leave
6 (5.9%)
ROTW - Remain
36 (35.3%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (19.6%)

Total Members Voted: 100

Sheilbh

#32325
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on January 08, 2026, 09:33:44 AMWell perhaps I do need to clarify "marbles"

I don't think you can make absolute and crystal clear bright lines between security policy, diplomacy, foreign policy, trade, economic policy, taxation, and economic regulation.  In fact, one of the aspects of the "Trump Effect" has been to blur and break down those distinctions.  It's in that sense that I mean EU membership necessarily puts some marbles in the EU basket.
:lol: Fair - but I think there can be a trap of putting too much emphasis on the moment of Brexit itself and not the previous 75 years or the subsequent ten. Brexit doesn't happen and the last ten years would also have been full of tensions and arguments and politics around the nature of Britain's relationship with Europe. We would not have put it to bed and just become good communautaire Europeans - much like the independence referendum didn't end Scottish nationalism or questions about the future of the union.

In a way I think the interesting thing, which is to the point of the UK not really seeing the EU as a security player, is looking at the "coalition of the willing" (it seriously needs a diferent name) which France and the UK are trying to cobble together. Because of the importance of Ukraine and the position of the US. I think we have a more European foreign policy than we ever did in the EU - when we were constantly trying to undermine Europe as an agent. Arguably in practical terms this is the most European Britain's foreign and defence policy has been since Suez: Britain and France working together militarily, unsure of and reliant on American attitudes to their adventure.

Edit: To be really, really puckish - I think there's actually an argument that Berlin and Paris are more able to push these E3 summits and stategies between France, Germany and Britain because Britain's not a member state. Within the EU it always becomes a question of then having to invite the President of the Commission - and if they're coming the President of the Council wants an invite - similarly Poland should be at the table, but if Tusk is there you probably have to invite Meloni and Sanchez. (FWIW I think it should be an E4 and Tusk should be at the table because I think it's not great to not have any CEE states involved and Poland's spending and seriousness on defence is very admirable ad important). I think that dynamic is part of the challenge for EU on a foreign and defence policy front (especially given unaninimity and leaders like Orban). Because I think the other counter-factual to Brexit Britain is the EU - and it has been a hugely important tool and body fo supporting Ukraine. But, even without moaning, "special relationship", veto-happy Brits it has not seen a leap forward in foreign and security policy....yet. Fingers crossed that happens.
Let's bomb Russia!

HVC

Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Crazy_Ivan80

Quote from: HVC on Today at 09:41:35 AMUAE deems UK universities have too high a risk of Islamist indoctrination, cancels scholarships

Muslim brotherhood influence, as expected. It's a plague on our houses, as the French have also reported.
But till there's people denying there's a problem.