Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Richard Hakluyt]

@ The Larch - I think there would have to be another vote for the referendum to be overturned. Perhaps a really strong manifesto comitment to overturn the vote with fresh elections won by the remaining party could also do it. The problem is that both main parties are reliant on brexit support, also Corbyn is fundamentally a brexiter; without co-operation between the two main parties' remainer majorities we will carry on down this damaging path.

I agree with the stance of not simply ignoring the vote btw; long term that sort of behaviour leads to disaster.

[Richard Hakluyt]

....and might I add that Cameron is a feckless incompetent arse and I would probably say that to his face if we ever bump into each other down the pub.

[crazy canuck]

I agree with the stance of not simply ignoring the vote btw; long term that sort of behaviour leads to disaster.

What disaster would that be?

And why would Parliament deciding not to be bound by a flawed non binding vote lead to it?

[Richard Hakluyt]

I agree with the stance of not simply ignoring the vote btw; long term that sort of behaviour leads to disaster.

What disaster would that be?

And why would Parliament deciding not to be bound by a flawed non binding vote lead to it?

The leaflet sent out by the government said that the vote would be honoured.

[crazy canuck]

I agree with the stance of not simply ignoring the vote btw; long term that sort of behaviour leads to disaster.

What disaster would that be?

And why would Parliament deciding not to be bound by a flawed non binding vote lead to it?

The leaflet sent out by the government said that the vote would be honoured.

Since when does a leaflet from the government of the day bind future Parliaments?  The real mischief here is that people seem to have forgotten one of the most important principles of Parliamentary Democracy - past parliaments cannot bind future parliaments.  Given that long established convention, how can the flawed Brexit vote bind future Parliaments?

[Richard Hakluyt]

Most of the people never knew that in the first place; which is another reason why they should never have been asked about a complex issue like EU membership.

If the vote were simply cast aside then 52% of our electorate would regard our democracy as a total sham; this would have incalculable consequences.

[The Brain]

In 1955 Sweden held a referendum on switching to driving on the right. The result was a landslide NO. Sweden switched to driving on the right in 1967. At least my whole lifetime no one has been asking for the 1955 referendum to be honored, or bitched about the issue.

Sweden is not a perfect country when it comes to referenda (the 1980 nuclear power referendum was particularly unsound on so many levels), but I think it's possible to ignore a referendum result without too much negative effects (of course there are never any guarantees). The cost of going forward with Brexit isn't limited to economics either.

[crazy canuck]

Most of the people never knew that in the first place; which is another reason why they should never have been asked about a complex issue like EU membership.

If the vote were simply cast aside then 52% of our electorate would regard our democracy as a total sham; this would have incalculable consequences.

Respectfully, I do not think democratic institutions are strengthened by bowing to popular misunderstanding.  The consequences of people being educated about how democracy actually works is far more acceptable than the consequences of Brexit.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I'm not saying I'm certain to be right; maybe if England have a good run in the World Cup then May can quietly cancel and ask the EU for terms; but my gut feeling is that such an action would be very destabilising.

[The Larch]

At the very least, I'd assume that the Daily Mail and similar rags would go ballistic if the Brexit vote is dismissed.

[Tamas]

At the very least, I'd assume that the Daily Mail and similar rags would go ballistic if the Brexit vote is dismissed.

Oh yes. They do things like posting judge's photos as "enemies of the people" if they seem to delay the bringing of the hardest of Brexit possible. It would not be pretty.

But then again, being afraid of that (like the Tories and Labour are) just means the mob rules. Which I guess where mis-managed democracies end up at.

[The Larch]

At the very least, I'd assume that the Daily Mail and similar rags would go ballistic if the Brexit vote is dismissed.

Oh yes. They do things like posting judge's photos as "enemies of the people" if they seem to delay the bringing of the hardest of Brexit possible. It would not be pretty.

But then again, being afraid of that (like the Tories and Labour are) just means the mob rules. Which I guess where mis-managed democracies end up at.

I guess that that kind of belligerant tone is a way to prevent even considering a hypothetical reversal/dismissal of the referendum vote, given how hostile the tabloids have been to the EU historically.

[Josquius]

I'm not saying I'm certain to be right; maybe if England have a good run in the World Cup then May can quietly cancel and ask the EU for terms; but my gut feeling is that such an action would be very destabilising.

That would be lovely.
Sadly I see them using it the other way.

Despite the fact that the England team is made up of guys who are:
Under 35
Deal a lot with foreigners in their daily lives
From working class backgrounds though have done well and became big earners
Largely live in major cities, primarily left voting
Travel a lot

i.e. all signs point towards England players being remainers.
Plus everyone in football who came out about the referendum did so for remain. Lineker in particular.

[The Larch]

Despite the fact that the England team is made up of guys who are:
Under 35
Deal a lot with foreigners in their daily lives
From working class backgrounds though have done well and became big earners
Largely live in major cities, primarily left voting
Travel a lot

i.e. all signs point towards England players being remainers.
Plus everyone in football who came out about the referendum did so for remain. Lineker in particular.

And many of them of inmigrant backgrounds as well. At least Sterling was born outside the UK, right?

[Tamas]

Ok I am calling bullshit on this one:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/04/wiltshire-couple-poisoned-by-nerve-agent-police-announce-dawn-sturgess-charlie-rowley

This story that doesn't make the least bit of sense but should be good to grab attention, surfaces just when a) the government REALLY needs some peace and quiet before their big internal fight on Friday
b) the footy unfortunately stops until after the government meeting

Give me a break.