Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Admiral Yi]

Interesting that Labor loses huge in the teeth of the Great Depression.  Seems backwards.

Sorry, Labour.

[Sheilbh]

In response to the Great Depression, the Labour Party split (and Labour people hold a grudge to this day ).

Labour won in 1929 and Ramsay MacDonald became PM for the second time, with a far stronger position than in 1924 and was able to hold office for longer than six months. Following the crash the Labour government is hugely split over how to respond. The cabinet divides more or less equally. In the end government collapses and there's an election in 1931 - Ramsay MacDonald agrees to form a national government with the Tories and Liberals.

A big chunk of the Labour Party disagrees so the party splits between the Labour Party (which opposed the National Government and is still around) and National Labour led by MacDonald. Something similar happens to the Liberals. The National Government parties win overwhelmingly but - as our system punishes splits - the main beneficiary is the Tory Party (who win almost 500 seats). MacDonald governs for the rest of that term relying on Tory and Liberal votes, but he had campaigned as PM of the National Government. At the next election the Tories take over under Stanley Baldwin - and Labour start recovering, but that's the last election until 1945.

Although also worth noting in comparison with the other big economies the Great Depression was comparatively mild in the UK. It was far less sever than in the US. There's a huge regional divide but in the South and Midlands the thirties is actually an era of relative and growing prosperity, suburban Metroland and complacency. The North and industrial centres were really badly bit. But nationwide, the UK's big economic shocks were in the 20s - the immediate post-war depression, the General Strike etc had a deeper, longer impact than the Great Depression and that's the context for Labour's breakthrough and first government.

[Tamas]

(again - in the context of climate I think the need to get clean energy would outweigh almost anything else, but that's just my view).

[Sheilbh]

[HVC]

I see that tamas is part of the mosquito lobby and thus my enemy.

[Tonitrus]

Only just seen this, slightly disappointed to have gone to sleep before this display from the BBC's election coverage (He did caveat Henderson in 1931):

Top hats are underrepresented. 

[Sheilbh]

I blame LBJ

Separately, Britain's wrongest man strikes again

It's worrying to see the prime minister cheerleading for war. Will Ukraine turn into Starmer's Iraq?
Simon Jenkins
The Nato summit offered a chance to work towards resolution. But instead, Starmer talked about long-range missiles

[Jacob]

Simon Jenkins to replace Southgate!

[Sheilbh]

Given who else the FA is considering, not a bad shout.

Also saw this and forgot to post but Liz Truss' lack of self-awareness continues to astound:

Will Hazell
@whazell
EXCLUSIVE @Telegraph: Liz Truss has blamed the scale of the Conservatives' general election defeat on a decision by Rishi Sunak to "trash my record"

I'd point out that on average the Tory vote fell by about 45% from 2019. In Truss' constituency it fell by 65%...

Also thought this was interesting in relation to what BBoy was mentioning. It seems that people are broadly accepting that Starmer has a significant mandate:


I think part of the context is that this was a change election. The change may not have been positive joy at an incoming Labour government - but to kick the bums out in every seat voting for whoever was best placed to do that. But also, perhaps, simply that because of the electoral system it doesn't just reflect what parties do but how voters perceive legitimacy and it's not based on vote count but seats.

I think long term the broad decline since the 90s of support for the big three parties will break that at some point. But not now - and I suspect it's more likely (like in 2005) to be in an election a few terms into a government that isn't hated but is no longer popular with an opposition that can't win. It'll come more from a place of exhaustion not a change election and reflect that exhaustion, not just a numeric trigger.

[Sheilbh]

I see the new VP candidate has (racist) opinions about Britain


It's wild online how for the right the UK is the country of Islamist "no go zones", chaos on the streets and, more than anywhere else in Europe, it has "fallen" (normally the positive contrast is Poland or Hungary). Then flip to the other side and it's "rainy fascist island" (I'm not actually sure if there's a positive contrast - the online left is pretty pessimistic everywhere ). I don't feel like any of that actually has anything to do with Britain - it all feels like projection of some sort of other.

But I'd really like it if the madly political very online people would focus on somewhere else for a bit

Although we probably shouldn't tell JD Vance that Britain's first Muslim Lord Chancellor (and Minister for Justice) was sworn in today in the High Court, on a Quran

[HVC]

Otto is Vance!!!
Vance is Otto!!!

[Syt]

National Conservatism? As opposed to National Socialism, I guess?

[Josquius]

I see the new VP candidate has (racist) opinions about Britain


It's wild online how for the right the UK is the country of Islamist "no go zones", chaos on the streets and, more than anywhere else in Europe, it has "fallen" (normally the positive contrast is Poland or Hungary). Then flip to the other side and it's "rainy fascist island" (I'm not actually sure if there's a positive contrast - the online left is pretty pessimistic everywhere ). I don't feel like any of that actually has anything to do with Britain - it all feels like projection of some sort of other.

But I'd really like it if the madly political very online people would focus on somewhere else for a bit

Although we probably shouldn't tell JD Vance that Britain's first Muslim Lord Chancellor (and Minister for Justice) was sworn in today in the High Court, on a Quran

Amazingly stupid.
Stupid even at the best of times of course.
But to say that in light of the recent results where it's a known story the labour Muslim vote fell off a cliff...

[Valmy]

It is a common joke that the UK is a Muslim country and that sharia law reigns supreme. Islam is like 6% of the population. In a more serious sense it seems like a source of panic for many.

This is coming from the same type of people who assured me that France and the Netherlands would be Muslim majority by 2015 or something back in the late 1990s.

During the whole controversy around France not supporting the Iraq war, so many people over there thought that France was something like 25% Islamic or something. I would show them the actual numbers or talk about my experience in France and they would not believe me. I was lying or something.

I know that Islam is a bit unusual for Britain in the fact that is is a religion that is actually growing. But I am highly skeptical that the UK society is being shaped by Islam in any sense, much less that it is a Muslim country. After all, as fast as Islam is growing having no religion at all is growing much faster. It would be more accurate to call the UK a non-religious country  though Christianity is still the plurality...for now.

[Tamas]

Obviously Vances claim is utter BS the only point I would challenge is Islam not having a cultural influence. It is a minor but not insignificant political force at one hand by providing a target for the far right and by apparently pan-Muslims matters being a high priority election issue for some, notably Labour getting shafted for not sorting out a Gaza cease fire from opposition.