NCAA Football, 2016

[Berkut]

I think, if nothing else, this story is a fine example of how coaches can influence kids when it comes to their concepts of integrity and sportsmanship and owning your results. Clearly it has sunk in profoundly with AR, and his concept of "sportsmanship" that praises parent coaches screaming at officials during eight year olds football games.

[derspiess]

Harbaugh-- now there's a dude who knows how to yell at a ref.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/10/10/9494521/jim-harbaugh-yelling-dominating-northwestern-not-enough

[alfred russel]

I think, if nothing else, this story is a fine example of how coaches can influence kids when it comes to their concepts of integrity and sportsmanship and owning your results.

Aside from making the ref uncomfortable, what does yelling at the ref have to do with any of that?

Also, you never seem to acknowledge that a bad call from a ref can determine the winner of the game. To use the example I gave, if we assume the ref really did make a bad call, we lost but had the ref made the right call we would have won. If you want to talk about integrity and owning results, how about some acknowledgement that ref mistakes determine the outcome of some games?

[derspiess]

Hey you never know if somebody is truly a contender until they show what they can do against mighty Youngstown State.

Hey, we all saw what Youngstown did to Duquesne.

Seriously though, I would not be surprised if the first half ends with WVU up just 7-6.

[Berkut]

I think, if nothing else, this story is a fine example of how coaches can influence kids when it comes to their concepts of integrity and sportsmanship and owning your results.

Aside from making the ref uncomfortable, what does yelling at the ref have to do with any of that?

Also, you never seem to acknowledge that a bad call from a ref can determine the winner of the game. To use the example I gave, if we assume the ref really did make a bad call, we lost but had the ref made the right call we would have won. If you want to talk about integrity and owning results, how about some acknowledgement that ref mistakes determine the outcome of some games?

What is the point of stating the obvious?

Of course, even at that you are being a bit silly. What was the score of that game?

Lets say it was 44-45. If the ref had not blown the call (and of course the likelihood is that he made the right call, and had he NOT made that right call, the OTHER team would have had the game "stolen" from them"), then the score would have been 46-45.

What about the other 20 scores that happened in that game? Or didn't happen, because they were defended.

Had any of THOSE scores or not scores been taken away by the official "stealing" the game, they would have had that exact same outcome.

It is special pleading to think that the last play is somehow more relevant than all the others - a common mistake to be sure, but it betrays a rather amateurish way of thinking about these things.

There are a ridiculous number of variables that go into the outcome of a game, many of which can be controlled by the players, and many of which cannot. Simple dumb luck drives a lot of outcomes when teams are evenly matched. Which way does the ball bounce on the fumble, where did the blocked shot go, did the 50-50 block charge go block or charge, etc., etc.

Can an official decide the outcome of a game? Of course - when all those variables line up just right, it is the case that one of them can tilt things one way or another. But it is lazy thinking to decide that of some huge number of variables, all of which went into the outcome of a tight game, we should pick out the one that gives you some emotional satisfaction because you can "blame" someone as the decisive variable. When had a ball bounced differently 5 minutes earlier, you would have been down by 5 going into that last possession, or up by 4, and nothing the official does or does not do would have mattered.

And the reality is that even in the situation you described, even if it was a completely blown call that had it been called right would have meant you guys won that game...he still did not "steal" it from you. You didn't play well enough to overcome the inherent sloppiness that happens in every sporting event, the inevitable friction of luck that plays its role. Some human messed up - so what? Do you have an expectation that officials ought to never mess up, and if they do they are "stealing" from you? Were the officials in that game otherwise perfect, and that was the only mistake made? Or were there other mistakes that benefited your team, and without THOSE mistakes you would never have been in position for the buzzer beater anyway?

Who really decided that game? The official who made a mistake at a critical point? Or you? Did you make every single shot you took in that game? Turn the ball over at all? Did you PLAY perfectly? Why do you expect officials to be perfect? Didn't you steal the game from yourself by not making every single shot?

[alfred russel]

Sounds to me like a longwinded refusal to own results.

[grumbler]

Harbaugh-- now there's a dude who knows how to yell at a ref.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2015/10/10/9494521/jim-harbaugh-yelling-dominating-northwestern-not-enough

Classic example of people reading into that something that isn't there.  There are plenty of examples of Harbaugh yelling at refs - not just cursing, because he is always trying to make a point - but that isn't one of them.  He's just yelling "no way!" after seeing a play he didn't like.  He's not even standing in front of the ref.

Here is harbaugh yelling at the refs (as he demonstrates why he thinks they were wrong about a roughing the kicker call).

[derspiess]

  Okay grumbler.

[CountDeMoney]

Abuse is a vicious circle.

[Berkut]

Sounds to me like a longwinded refusal to own results.

I was thinking that as well.

I've never known a player or coach to credit an official with their win, only their losses are the officials fault.

Oh look, we are back to sportsmanship.

[dps]

Cincinnati better be in. They are the only decent program East of the Mississippi that is not UConn and not in a major conference. WV needs an eastern partner.

East Carolina.

[dps]

Oh look, we are back to sportsmanship.

Did you really expect good sportsmanship from Dorsey?

[alfred russel]

I was thinking that as well.

I've never known a player or coach to credit an official with their win, only their losses are the officials fault.

Oh look, we are back to sportsmanship.

I agree on the point about teams only blaming officials for losses and not giving them credit for wins (assuming mistakes were made).

YMMV, and I know I'm in a distinct minority on this, but I think Oregon should have made some effort to forfeit the game against OU several years ago. That is a very rare case when a single egregious call so obviously flipped the outcome of the game. OU would have been in position to just take a knee (which is still a play that needs to be executed, so technically even then the game wouldn't have been over).

[Valmy]

Time for the big Wyoming comeback!

[Valmy]

I have to say this is a pretty weak slate of games to start the day with, though watching Pitt destroy Penn State is fun.