NCAA Football, 2016

[derspiess]

I dunno spicey... what ever happened to "being the better man" in a situation like that, even if everything went down exactly as you said?

Been there, done that.  I saw my kid's baseball team get walked all over because the coaches weren't assertive enough.  Pretty demoralizing for the kids.  For my kid, anyway.

There's also the possibility the ref just didn't know what a "running clock" actually meant, the second coach told the kid to stay down because he was worried he was hurt?

Yep, all kinds of possibilities there.

And you never did say how you dealt with the ref about the blown call.

Yelled at him.  Then more calmly spoke to him about it in the next timeout.  His only defense was "You guys scored on the next play anyway" which totally missed the point.  The kid got sent out of the game by the offensive coach, who didn't know it was a bogus penalty until we told him when he came off the field.

And finally... why the fuck do you have game film for youth football???

Video is powerful coaching tool (and hudl is a godsend).  You can't closely watch all 11 players on the field at the same time, so game video lets you go back & see what the kids are doing right and what you need to focus on at practice.  And it's kind of in my blood

[Barrister]

Yelled at him.  Then more calmly spoke to him about it in the next timeout.  His only defense was "You guys scored on the next play anyway" which totally missed the point.  The kid got sent out of the game by the offensive coach, who didn't know it was a bogus penalty until we told him when he came off the field.

I don't have anywhere near the experience Berkut has.  What I did have was the summer of 1987, when I was 12 and umped little kid softball games.  I remember making a brutal call (I called a kid out thinking there was a force, when there wasn't).  Coach starts yelling at me.  Made me feel two inches tall cuz I knew I'd made a mistake as soon as he pointed it out.  Sure didn't make me want to continue umping.

Video is powerful coaching tool (and hudl is a godsend).  You can't closely watch all 11 players on the field at the same time, so game video lets you go back & see what the kids are doing right and what you need to focus on at practice.  And it's kind of in my blood

Well please at least tell  me it's only for the coaches, and you're not making the kids watch film.

[Berkut]

They have to know which kids need "extra coaching". Youth football is serious business.

[alfred russel]

It may be a faux pas to take derspeiss' side in anything, but I think a lot of kids appreciate the coaches taking the game seriously. They look up to guys playing in high school, college, and the pros, and they think it is cool to have a similar experience. Obviously some limits need to be set. But I remember as a kid treating every game like game seven of the NBA finals. A coach not giving a shit about a ref screwing us over would be demoralizing.

[derspiess]

Well please at least tell  me it's only for the coaches, and you're not making the kids watch film.

We keep game film access limited to coaches (and coaches' kids if they want to watch).  Tommy likes watching film with me.  I also film games for my nephew's team one age group ahead of ours.  They have hudl accounts for every single player/parent.  Some kids watch, some don't.  But what kid wouldn't want to watch himself play?

[alfred russel]

We keep game film access limited to coaches (and coaches' kids if they want to watch).  Tommy likes watching film with me.  I also film games for my nephew's team one age group ahead of ours.  They have hudl accounts for every single player/parent.  Some kids watch, some don't.  But what kid wouldn't want to watch himself play?

I would have loved it when I was a kid. I used to tape games on TV and try to "break down the film" because that is what the pros did and I thought somehow it would give me an edge. Of course it didn't because I was a stupid kid and the TV angles aren't really right anyway, but with a coach it might have been helpful and definitely would have been cool.

[Berkut]

It may be a faux pas to take derspeiss' side in anything, but I think a lot of kids appreciate the coaches taking the game seriously. They look up to guys playing in high school, college, and the pros, and they think it is cool to have a similar experience. Obviously some limits need to be set. But I remember as a kid treating every game like game seven of the NBA finals. A coach not giving a shit about a ref screwing us over would be demoralizing.

You are creating a false dilemma.

The options are not between a coach who doesn't give a shit, and a coach who thinks punishing the other teams kids to "send a message" is necessary to prove how much he cares.

There are plenty of coaches, most of them in fact, who take the game with an appropriate level of seriousness, who can deal with other coaches and officials with respect and consideration, and who teach their kids sportsmanship, respect for the game, and love of the sport without any need to act out or yell at anyone.

An official made a mistake? So what. THAT is a teaching moment as well. And what those kids were taught was that if someone makes a mistake, the way to act is with anger and screaming and yelling. They internalize that just like they internalize all the other teaching that is happening all the time when you decide it is necessary to "send a message" or yell at the official, or punch in TD number 5 and 6 and 7 to prove that you are the better coach/parent/football dad.

I've seen a thousand of these interactions over my career - literally. Some coach thinks an official blew a call. BFD. It happens every single game. Most coaches are quite capable of dealing with it without any need to scream and yell in front of a bunch of 10 year olds, while still making it clear that the game matters to them. But more importantly, character, integrity, and respect for others matters more than the game itself. The game is a vehicle to teach, not an ends that justifies any kind of boorish behavior because you think someone made a mistake.

Take the kid aside, tell him you thought it was a great block, and you are proud of him for making it even though someone made a mistake. Tell him that life sometimes does that, and what matters is how we handle adversity - with class, respect, dignity, and sportsmanship. And send him back out and tell him to make that same block again...as long as it really was legal, of course.

[Barrister]

It may be a faux pas to take derspeiss' side in anything, but I think a lot of kids appreciate the coaches taking the game seriously. They look up to guys playing in high school, college, and the pros, and they think it is cool to have a similar experience. Obviously some limits need to be set. But I remember as a kid treating every game like game seven of the NBA finals. A coach not giving a shit about a ref screwing us over would be demoralizing.

You are creating a false dilemma.

The options are not between a coach who doesn't give a shit, and a coach who thinks punishing the other teams kids to "send a message" is necessary to prove how much he cares.

There are plenty of coaches, most of them in fact, who take the game with an appropriate level of seriousness, who can deal with other coaches and officials with respect and consideration, and who teach their kids sportsmanship, respect for the game, and love of the sport without any need to act out or yell at anyone.

An official made a mistake? So what. THAT is a teaching moment as well. And what those kids were taught was that if someone makes a mistake, the way to act is with anger and screaming and yelling. They internalize that just like they internalize all the other teaching that is happening all the time when you decide it is necessary to "send a message" or yell at the official, or punch in TD number 5 and 6 and 7 to prove that you are the better coach/parent/football dad.

I've seen a thousand of these interactions over my career - literally. Some coach thinks an official blew a call. BFD. It happens every single game. Most coaches are quite capable of dealing with it without any need to scream and yell in front of a bunch of 10 year olds, while still making it clear that the game matters to them. But more importantly, character, integrity, and respect for others matters more than the game itself. The game is a vehicle to teach, not an ends that justifies any kind of boorish behavior because you think someone made a mistake.

Take the kid aside, tell him you thought it was a great block, and you are proud of him for making it even though someone made a mistake. Tell him that life sometimes does that, and what matters is how we handle adversity - with class, respect, dignity, and sportsmanship. And send him back out and tell him to make that same block again...as long as it really was legal, of course.

+1

Can I bring this Berkut into the election thread?

[CountDeMoney]

We keep game film access limited to coaches (and coaches' kids if they want to watch).  Tommy likes watching film with me.  I also film games for my nephew's team one age group ahead of ours.  They have hudl accounts for every single player/parent.  Some kids watch, some don't.  But what kid wouldn't want to watch himself play?

I dunno, man...that can be dangerous, exposing game film to a child too early.

After all, cutting game film with Dad is how this sociopath got started--

[alfred russel]

Berkut and BB: it is all theoretically good to take significant blown calls against your team as an opportunity to show sportsmanship by not getting on the ref's back. However, that isn't how such calls are taken at higher levels in sports.

[Berkut]

Berkut and BB: it is all theoretically good to take significant blown calls against your team as an opportunity to show sportsmanship by not getting on the ref's back. However, that isn't how such calls are taken at higher levels in sports.

<boggle>

That is the point. This isn't a higher level. It is YOUTH football. These kids are 10-13.

And as spicey described the play("decorated")  the hit was possibly illegal by high school rules anyway.

[alfred russel]

Berkut and BB: it is all theoretically good to take significant blown calls against your team as an opportunity to show sportsmanship by not getting on the ref's back. However, that isn't how such calls are taken at higher levels in sports.

<boggle>

That is the point. This isn't a higher level. It is YOUTH football. These kids are 10-13.

And as spicey described the play("decorated")  the hit was possibly illegal by high school rules anyway.

I read all this as, "Berkut doesn't like it when people yell at him."

I don't see what is wrong with (within limits) a coach getting on the ref when he makes a bad call. The coach is an adult, and so is the ref. It is a part of the game. Who does it harm?

I think of this along the lines of badly outdated notions of sportsmanship. For example, at some levels you can't spike the football after a TD. It is "unsportsmanlike." But to who? If you watch pick up games, it seems everyone spikes the football (and then awkwardly chases down the ball). Lots of people dance. It seems in 1960 people decided those things were unsportsmanlike, and they don't change even though no one would take offense.

[Berkut]

I guess there are people who think sportsmanship is outdated. Shrug.

[alfred russel]

I guess there are people who think sportsmanship is outdated. Shrug.

I definitely don't think sportsmanship is outdated. Not taunting, not fighting, not hazing, being gracious in defeat and victory are important signs of character. It is also important to give your best effort to prepare and in the competition.

I don't see giving a ref a bit of grief and an opponent a bit of trash talk - assuming both stay within certain bounds - are part of that.

[PDH]

Can't we all just go back to talking about how friggin' awesome Wyoming is?