The Paris Attack Debate Thread

[Valmy]

The starting line up of my son's basketball team includes - a Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim.  According to Viper the world should shake with fear!  But not so much other teams because most will have a higher percentage of Sikhs on their teams.

Do any of them pray for things?

[Valmy]

well. there was a war with some 3/4 of a million victims.  Or maybe it was a war about States rights?
And there were slave rebellion elsewhere.

Sure. A State's right to secede to protect the institution of slavery.

[jimmy olsen]

I have some problem agreeing with this position.  Almost any belief can motivate some people to violence.

For example, that John Brown used terrorist tactics doesn't reflect poorly on abolitionism, IMO.  (ACW hijack!)

I think there's a difference between a cause (such as abolitionism, independence, civil rights, etc) and a belief system such as a religion.  There will always be proponents of violence to achieve virtually any cause, but it doesn't stem organically from the cause itself.

I think the more important thing to note is that John Brown was a rather singular exception.

If there were hundreds of John Brown attacks happening every year, killing thousands of people, all of whom claimed they were motivated by their desire to free slaves, then in fact it would not be unreasonable to note that this abolition thing seems to drive a lot of violence.

Since that didn't happen, the point is kind of moot.

It caused a civil war that killed 750,000 and lead to the abolition of slavery. It may be the most successful act of terrorism of all time.

[HVC]

The starting line up of my son's basketball team includes - a Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim.   

this sounds like a set up for a joke

[mongers]

The starting line up of my son's basketball team includes - a Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim.   

this sounds like a set up for a joke

A Sikh, a Hindu and a Muslim walk into Toronto customs and immigration.

Canadian border agent:

"Welcome, might I suggest you gentlemen enter Canada, find worthwhile jobs and encourage your children to form a noble basketball team, who'll be defeated by the sons of giants, but will conduct themselves in such a manner that will make all Canadians proud."

[Jaron]

I have some problem agreeing with this position.  Almost any belief can motivate some people to violence.

For example, that John Brown used terrorist tactics doesn't reflect poorly on abolitionism, IMO.  (ACW hijack!)

I think there's a difference between a cause (such as abolitionism, independence, civil rights, etc) and a belief system such as a religion.  There will always be proponents of violence to achieve virtually any cause, but it doesn't stem organically from the cause itself.

I think the more important thing to note is that John Brown was a rather singular exception.

If there were hundreds of John Brown attacks happening every year, killing thousands of people, all of whom claimed they were motivated by their desire to free slaves, then in fact it would not be unreasonable to note that this abolition thing seems to drive a lot of violence.

Since that didn't happen, the point is kind of moot.

It caused a civil war that killed 750,000 and lead to the abolition of slavery. It may be the most successful act of terrorism of all time.

Caused 

[Berkut]

I have some problem agreeing with this position.  Almost any belief can motivate some people to violence.

For example, that John Brown used terrorist tactics doesn't reflect poorly on abolitionism, IMO.  (ACW hijack!)

I think there's a difference between a cause (such as abolitionism, independence, civil rights, etc) and a belief system such as a religion.  There will always be proponents of violence to achieve virtually any cause, but it doesn't stem organically from the cause itself.

I think the more important thing to note is that John Brown was a rather singular exception.

If there were hundreds of John Brown attacks happening every year, killing thousands of people, all of whom claimed they were motivated by their desire to free slaves, then in fact it would not be unreasonable to note that this abolition thing seems to drive a lot of violence.

Since that didn't happen, the point is kind of moot.

well. there was a war with some 3/4 of a million victims.  Or maybe it was a war about States rights?
And there were slave rebellion elsewhere.

Are you fucking kidding me?

That is Raz level of intentionally missing the point.

[Berkut]

Kind of amazed that the apologism for Islamic radicalism extends so far that people are willing to blame the US Civil War not on people demanding that they have the right to own other people (slavery), but on the ideology that this is a pretty terrible idea (abolition).

[Valmy]

Kind of amazed that the apologism for Islamic radicalism extends so far that people are willing to blame the US Civil War not on people demanding that they have the right to own other people (slavery), but on the ideology that this is a pretty terrible idea (abolition).

Eh why not? The Abolitionists got blamed for it at the time.

[Razgovory]

Oh it's quite interesting.

Find someone who agrees with you and you have all the makings of the discussion.

So it's only interesting when you get to gore someone else's ox?  Gottcha.

[Martinus]

The fact is, while a lot of Muslim violence is culturally motivated, it just so happens that the most illiberal and savage societies right now are those run by Muslims and Muslim regimes. You can say a lot about conservative Catholics, Hindus etc. in less developed parts of the world being creepy or backward, but none of them are beheading gays, stoning adulterers, punishing rape victims and the like (I don't mention female genital mutilation, as I am not sure if this is not practiced by non-Muslims). You can play "hide the ball" and try to obfuscate the issue by pointing out that there are moderate muslims and non-moderate Christians all you want, but that's a fact.

[Tonitrus]

I have some problem agreeing with this position.  Almost any belief can motivate some people to violence.

For example, that John Brown used terrorist tactics doesn't reflect poorly on abolitionism, IMO.  (ACW hijack!)

I think there's a difference between a cause (such as abolitionism, independence, civil rights, etc) and a belief system such as a religion.  There will always be proponents of violence to achieve virtually any cause, but it doesn't stem organically from the cause itself.

I think the more important thing to note is that John Brown was a rather singular exception.

If there were hundreds of John Brown attacks happening every year, killing thousands of people, all of whom claimed they were motivated by their desire to free slaves, then in fact it would not be unreasonable to note that this abolition thing seems to drive a lot of violence.

Since that didn't happen, the point is kind of moot.

It caused a civil war that killed 750,000 and lead to the abolition of slavery. It may be the most successful act of terrorism of all time.

No respect for Gavrilo Princip? 

[Admiral Yi]

So it's only interesting when you get to gore someone else's ox?  Gottcha.

So..hard..to..resist...bait.  Must...remain...strong.

[Jaron]

I LOVE this #JeSuisChien hashtag. If you thought people were going nuts about prayers for Paris, you should see how they flip out because people are mourning a dog over Palestinians, Syrians, etc...

[Martinus]

I LOVE this #JeSuisChien hashtag. If you thought people were going nuts about prayers for Paris, you should see how they flip out because people are mourning a dog over Palestinians, Syrians, etc...

At first when I saw the hashtag, I thought it was a BDSM thing.