The Off Topic Topic

[grumbler]

Mr Edney remarked he doubted even a New York Times journalist could have written the quotes in the report without notes.

[someone]Fuckwit![/someone]

[judge] Someone is in contentment of court! [/judge]

[government lawyer] Objection, your honor!  The statement can't be in contempt of court because Mr. Edney is, in fact, obviously a fuckwit.  [/government lawyer]

[judge] Sustained [/judge]

[crazy canuck]

I disagree. I think most judges would come down much harder, especially if it happened in the middle of an examination in a criminal case.

But what's to be gained? It's clearly an accident - probably an instructing solicitor accidentally unmuting - I'm not sure there's much point in humiliating them. They'll already be dying from embarrassment and it feels like the barrister's being a bit of a diva. It's not up to them to decide they won't continue until they get an apology

I think the court here would have, at the very least, required the person who said it to identify themselves and apologize.  A lot of judges here would also have reported that person for disciplinary action.

[grumbler]

Canadian judges probably have more experience dealing with legal fuckwits than Australian judges.

[The Minsky Moment]

But what's to be gained? It's clearly an accident - probably an instructing solicitor accidentally unmuting - I'm not sure there's much point in humiliating them. They'll already be dying from embarrassment and it feels like the barrister's being a bit of a diva. It's not up to them to decide they won't continue until they get an apology

Court proceedings are serious matters especially where a defendant's liberty is at stake and most judges enforce decorum for good reason.  There is no question there would (should) be repercussions if this happened in open court.  But a virtual hearing is no different - in anything decorum should be policed more carefully because of the ability to obfuscate attribution.  Blaming it on the mute function is BS because a professional shouldn't be doing something in a virtual hearing they wouldn't do in a regular one - it's just bad practice.  Unless he or she is some sort of fuckwit that doesn't know better.

I'm not saying that the Court should have opened a police inquiry, but IMO a judge in that situation should make it very clear that she is displeased, expects the guilty party to fess up and apologize, and otherwise make it clear that breaches of decorum will be taken seriously.

[crazy canuck]

Canadian judges probably have more experience dealing with legal fuckwits than Australian judges.

No, probably because we don't let that sort of bad behaviour go unremarked.

[grumbler]

These proceedings are recorded, so I would think that it should be possible to see who unmuted their mike when the comment was made.  Obviously, I'm wrong, or this wouldn't be an issue, but I wonder why I am wrong.

[Syt]

[celedhring]

For whom the bell tolls? Not for tourists, that's for sure.

Church bells in Catalan town chime again after residents' pot-banging protests
The bells on the Santa Maria dels Turers church in Banyoles stopped ringing at night after complaints from tourists


Ashifa Kassam in Madrid
Wed 4 Aug 2021 17.48 BST

After a series of raucous protests involving pots and pans, residents in a small Catalan town near Barcelona have won a victory in their attempt to do away with the nightly silence imposed on the town to appease tourists.

The clattering began late last month in Banyoles, population 19,600, after residents realised that the bells on the Santa Maria dels Turers church had stopped ringing at night. A protest was hastily called. "We ask that the bells return to sounding out the 24 hours as well as the quarter-hours," read the call to action posted online.

As residents sought explanations for the sudden silence, the rector of the church pointed to the tourist apartments located across the street. The owner of the apartment had complained about the bells, said the rector, after several tourists had grumbled that the constant ringing was keeping them awake at night.

The rector, Ramon Pijoan, said he had checked with municipal officials, who said there was no bylaw in place regarding the ringing of the bells. "After the man insisted – and as I didn't want to fight – I decided to stop ringing the bells at night," Pijoan told newspaper El Periodico.

The decision left some residents fuming. "It's tradition. Without the bells, I can't sleep," one told broadcaster Antena 3. Others took aim at the tourists. "They need to put up with what there is, wherever they go," said one. "They should be informed beforehand that there's a church here where the bells ring out."

In the latest protest, held on Tuesday, 200 residents rattled and banged their way past the austere church, which has been a steady presence in the town since the 10th century.

The next day, the campaign achieved a victory of sorts, with the mayor, Miquel Noguer, telling local radio that the church bells would begin ringing again as of Thursday while the municipality explored potential compromises, such as lowering the volume of the bells at night.

But this idea has already been rejected by the neighbourhood association behind the protests. "We think it is an expense that is completely unnecessary. The funds could be instead be spent on more urgent causes," it said in a statement.

While boisterous tourists have often clashed with residents across Spain, this is not the first time that a municipality in Catalonia has found itself pitted in a seemingly inverse battle.

In 2016, the bells of the cathedral in Girona, 20 miles from Banyoles, were silenced for 49 nights after a hotel in the city complained that the ringing was disturbing guests. After protests by residents, the case ended up in court. The matter was settled, however, after the cathedral and the hotel reached an agreement under which the hotel helped fund the expense of reducing the volume of the bells to 50 decibels.

This issue is incredibly contentious over here, probably second only to Catalan independence. Every summer visitors complain about village churches ringing their bells at night, they leave bad reviews on Tripadvisor, and all hell breaks loose. 

Last month I spent a few days in Tarragona and the local church rang all night long, quarter-hours included. Fortunately I grew up close to a church so I'm kinda used to it. There were signs near the church very politely asking visitors to essentially get fucked and put up with the bells, I found it hilarious 

[Threviel]

I'm with that, the tourists can fuck off. What's the point of touristing if it's not to experience local life? If they want a good nights sleep they can fuck off to Ibiza or Barcelona or some such tourist enclosure.

[Josquius]

I'm with the basis that newcomers, especially tourists, shouldn't dictate changes to an existing setup.
But church bells in the wee hours of the morning does sound annoying and strange.

[Sheilbh]

Court proceedings are serious matters especially where a defendant's liberty is at stake and most judges enforce decorum for good reason.  There is no question there would (should) be repercussions if this happened in open court.  But a virtual hearing is no different - in anything decorum should be policed more carefully because of the ability to obfuscate attribution.  Blaming it on the mute function is BS because a professional shouldn't be doing something in a virtual hearing they wouldn't do in a regular one - it's just bad practice.  Unless he or she is some sort of fuckwit that doesn't know better.

In open court - I'm not sure. Because there is always chuntering from supporting barristers - if you've got a QC in the lead and a couple of juniors. Instructing solicitors I think tend to be more disciplined and pass their post-it notes back and forth in silence.

I'm not confident that no Australian junior barrister or solicitor has called the other side's QC a "fuckwit" So I think the comparison with accidentally unmuting is that it would be if that was accidentally loud and the judge could hear it or if the post-it fell in such way that an eagle eyed judge could see it. I think here - and maybe Australia too - what would happen would be sternly addressed words at that defence/prosecution team in general. I've seen that for too much noise from an opponent (incredulity etc) while a barrister's making submissions - but that didn't include calling him a fuckwit.

Especially because the worst case scenario would probably be if it is just some poor junior who doesn't deserve to be dragged in front of everyone in court - the rest of the team were doing it and they were the one who accidentally unmuted. Plus I think with technical fuck-ups there is an element of there but for the grace of God go I. I can imagine that WFH judges are aware of the risks of accidental unmuting.

These proceedings are recorded, so I would think that it should be possible to see who unmuted their mike when the comment was made.  Obviously, I'm wrong, or this wouldn't be an issue, but I wonder why I am wrong.

I'm not sure if they would be recorded - especially for this type of pre-sentencing hearing where, by the sounds of it, the prosecution's updating the court that they have now discovered the defendant isn't a citizen and the defence are asking for time to make submissions on this.

I'm with that, the tourists can fuck off. What's the point of touristing if it's not to experience local life? If they want a good nights sleep they can fuck off to Ibiza or Barcelona or some such tourist enclosure.

Agreed.

[celedhring]

I'm with the basis that newcomers, especially tourists, shouldn't dictate changes to an existing setup.
But church bells in the wee hours of the morning does sound annoying and strange.

Many churches run the bells 24/7 over here.

[The Larch]

For whom the bell tolls? Not for tourists, that's for sure.

No complaints about roosters being noisy in the early mornings or fields smelling bad because of manure? 

[HVC]

What's with the quarter hour ringing? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of time keeping if it's just going off every 15 minutes?

[Richard Hakluyt]

What's with the quarter hour ringing? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of time keeping if it's just going off every 15 minutes?

Usual system is to use the smaller bells to mark the quarter hours and the strokes of the big bell to mark the hours.

....and the complaining tourists need to fuck off. Its the same with the countryside here in England, a certain type of urbanite will complain about roosters, cows lowing etc etc....utterly ridiculous.