The Off Topic Topic

[The Larch]

The map author admits that some countries' estimates might be off by some degree, here's what he said on reddit:

Notes:

Map includes civilian and military deaths

Microstates, Iceland, and Switzerland have had their death tolls ommitted, as they have been involved in very little warfare, and an estimate for their death toll is difficult to come accross. Switzerland's bloodiest war seems to have been the Napoleonic Wars, however after speaking with friends who are familiar with Swiss history, and doing significant personal research, I could not come to any real conclusion. If you know the answer and would be able to provide a source, it would be appriciated and I may create an updated version of the map with said source.

Due to their limited histories resulting in a lack of reliable statistics, Macedonia, Moldova and Kosovo are ommitted from this map.

The Hundred Years' War might qualify as France's largest war in terms of death toll, however, it was a series of sporadic wars over the course of over 100 years, during which the Black Death was also present in Europe. It should also be noted that despite the French Wars of Religion being technically a series of wars/period of civil unrest, it was a much more concise time period than the Hundred Years' War, the wars were much closer together, probably more closely resembling the phases of the Thirty Years' War than the scattered wars of the Hundred Years' War.

Denmark did not have many reliable military statistics avalible, so I took their toll for the Great Northern War, which is likely their largest war, however the numbers may be slightly skewed. Other contenders for Denmark's largest war are the Northern Seven Years' War, and the Second Northern War.

In the Eastern Balkans, it is difficult to pin a death toll, and Slovenia, Croatia, and Montenegro may be significantly off.

Austria may have suffered more losses in the Seven Years' War than any other war, however for Austria, it is difficult enough to find accurate statistics for their death tolls, as they ruled over a large, multi-ethnic empire, and their army conscripted many non-Austrians and many of their civilian deaths come from these regions as well.

Most accounts put the Czech death toll for WW2 at roughly 300k, which may be the largest death toll for all of Czechia's wars. The Thirty Years' War, however, is used as the death toll is placed at 1/3 their population, and given that the Czech population in 1869 was 7.62 million, the population of Czechia in 1618 would have had to been less than approxomately 900k, which is statistically highly unlikely. The total amount of deaths in the Thirty Years' War was, by most modern estimates, 7.5 million, Czechia included. Prague is where the genesis of the war is, and Czechia is where a sizeable amount of the fighting took place, so it is most likely that the death toll for the Czechs lays somewhere around 500k-1.5m.

To me personally rather than the numbers themselves, which are always a bit iffy and difficult to calculate, is to know how bloody some of the pre-modern wars were. As mentioned, that even after two World Wars Germany's bloodiest war is stil the 30 years War says something about their scale. Obviously their much longer lengths also helped.

[Duque de Bragança]

Great hair, some camera angles work better than other.

By IMF Chief Economist standards she's a 10.

Thankfully for her, Strauss-Kahn is not around anymore.

[mongers]

What's the map trying to show, the highest military and civilian deaths in any war?

If so the UK figure is wrong, Great Britain (incl Ireland) had around 990,000 dead in WW1, so that would be the highest.

IIRC the UK lost 350,000 military and around 100,000 civilian, though I've not googled those, so could well be some way out.

[Tamas]

You can't know if the 30 years war was more bloody for Germany than ww2. I very much doubt it.

[The Brain]

Gustavus Adolphus tried to end the war but fucking papists were obstructionist af.

[alfred russel]

I meant well.

You found the map on paradox. what did you expect? 

[Agelastus]

You can't know if the 30 years war was more bloody for Germany than ww2. I very much doubt it.

I actually wouldn't doubt it, or would at least consider it at worst a 50/50 bet; what demographic information we have for Germany before 1618 and after 1648 tells a very grim story in most cases.

[Agelastus]

What's the map trying to show, the highest military and civilian deaths in any war?

If so the UK figure is wrong, Great Britain (incl Ireland) had around 990,000 dead in WW1, so that would be the highest.

IIRC the UK lost 350,000 military and around 100,000 civilian, though I've not googled those, so could well be some way out.

That's total Empire dead including India and the Dominions. Britain, Ireland and the Colonies contributed 700000 or so of that figure (figures from official sources vary.)

[Syt]

You can't know if the 30 years war was more bloody for Germany than ww2. I very much doubt it.

In percentage it probably was.

[Threviel]

The Germans lost 7-7.5 millions in the second world war. This list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll gives the thirty years war a span from 3-11.5 millions. If the higher numbers are to be believed the majority of them should be Germans and thus more than in WWII.

In relative numbers it definitely seems like the thirty years war was far bloodier. https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/Demographics indicates 25-40% of the population dead.

[Malthus]

The Germans lost 7-7.5 millions in the second world war. This list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll gives the thirty years war a span from 3-11.5 millions. If the higher numbers are to be believed the majority of them should be Germans and thus more than in WWII.

In relative numbers it definitely seems like the thirty years war was far bloodier. https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/Demographics indicates 25-40% of the population dead.

My guess is that the numbers are derived from relative populations before and after, and assuming that the difference = killed. Which may well be a good assumption, for the most part!

Such conflicts could be very destructive, as they lead to an almost total breakdown of the social order necessary to live. Why bother planting crops, if the next army to pass just takes all the food and burns your house down in the bargain?

[grumbler]

Such conflicts could be very destructive, as they lead to an almost total breakdown of the social order necessary to live. Why bother planting crops, if the next army to pass just takes all the food and burns your house down in the bargain?

Yep.  There was a huge shift in agriculture towards droving, which allowed the drover to potentially move his animals to safety.  Droving doesn't support the population that farming does.

[mongers]

This year's must have phone app:

Daily Mail demands browser warning U-turn

23 January 2019 

The Daily Mail is calling for a web browser alert that criticises its journalism to be changed.

The NewsGuard plug-in currently brings up a warning that says the newspaper's website "generally fails to maintain basic standards of accuracy and accountability".

It has given this advice since August.

But the matter came to prominence last week, after Microsoft updated its Edge browser app for Android and iOS devices and built in NewsGuard.

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-46976834

[The Brain]

The Germans lost 7-7.5 millions in the second world war. This list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_by_death_toll gives the thirty years war a span from 3-11.5 millions. If the higher numbers are to be believed the majority of them should be Germans and thus more than in WWII.

In relative numbers it definitely seems like the thirty years war was far bloodier. https://www.britannica.com/topic/history-of-Europe/Demographics indicates 25-40% of the population dead.

My guess is that the numbers are derived from relative populations before and after, and assuming that the difference = killed. Which may well be a good assumption, for the most part!

Such conflicts could be very destructive, as they lead to an almost total breakdown of the social order necessary to live. Why bother planting crops, if the next army to pass just takes all the food and burns your house down in the bargain?

I find the German rhymes about marauding Swedes offensive.

[Admiral Yi]

The Mountie Faggits sold their image rights to Disney in the 1990s.

From an Econo article about how fucked up the RCMP is.