The Off Topic Topic

[Barrister]

Don't listen to the UKE, be proud of yourself Ide.

This Uke proudly have a LL.B., which of course stands for BACHELLOR OF LAWS.

[katmai]

Don't listen to the UKE, be proud of yourself Ide.

This Uke proudly have a LL.B., which of course stands for BACHELLOR OF LAWS.

Not my fault Canada has a shitty education system.

USA USA!

[Ideologue]

Don't listen to the UKE, be proud of yourself Ide.

This Uke proudly have a LL.B., which of course stands for BACHELLOR OF LAWS.

LEX LUTHOR OF BALLS.

[katmai]

Beeb:

If I could walk into law school after high school, I would totally agree, but... I don't think we'll see eye-to-eye on this.

Out of curiosity, though, if you don't need an undergrad degree to get into a Canadian law school, is law school longer?  Like, are there any gen ed requirements, or do they just say, "Here, Contracts, Torts, Property, Crim Law.  Enjoy, 13th graders."

(And I don't have delusions of grandeur! I'd be a terrible lawyer, and I was never the best student, but by God, I feel like it's okay to have some pride in my fucking accomplishment.)

Nope - it's the same three year program.  It's a minimum of two years university.

Now if there was an actual "pre-law" program you had to study before going to law school THEN it would be a masters level program.  But because getting either a geology degree or a history degree both allow you to go to law school, it isn't the same course of studies.

And of course you should take some pride.  But take pride in the LAW part (or if you must, the Juris part ).

A med student once told me you didn't need any pre-med to get into medical school (some science and math requirements, but not a degree focus).  He might've been wrong, I never looked it up myself, as I was locked into my mistake by that point.

Don't listen to the UKE, be proud of yourself Ide.

You don't need to be pre-med for medical school.

[Malthus]

A master's degree is postgraduate work.

As is a J.D., in the United States.  I could have gone to graduate school and gotten an M.A. in history.  Instead, I went to law school.  They are equivalent in regard to level, because they have equivalent requirements.

I fully agree that the term professional degree is far preferable, but in its absence, there is neither rhyme nor reason in insisting that I have two bachelor's degrees, one in history and one in law, any more than there would be for me to insist an M.D. was a bachelor's degree in medicine, if I had instead studied biology and thereafter went to medical school.

That said, I'm not entirely sure if the "higher degree" option is not meant to represent the spectrum of professional degrees.

A MA in History is a master's degree because you already have a degree in history, and the masters is furthering your study.

But because what you study before law school is completely unrelated to law school, it is merely a second undergraduate degree.  Just because US lawschools got all douchebaggy and started inflating their degrees doesn't change that fundamental nature of what you are studying.

So did Canadian ones in imitation - I got an offer to change my LL.B for a J.D. (which I declined to do).

Amusingly, the ABA claims that a JD is equivalent to a Ph.D.

2. J.D. Degree - Ph.D. Degree Equivalency

WHEREAS, the acquisition of a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree requires from 84 to 90 semester hours of post baccalaureate study and the Doctor of Philosophy degree usually requires 60 semester hours of post baccalaureate study along with
the writing of a dissertation, the two degrees shall be considered as equivalent degrees for educational employment purposes;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that all appropriate persons be requested to eliminate any policy, or practice, existing within their jurisdiction which disparages legal education or promotes discriminatory employment practices against J.D. degree-holders who hold academic appointment in education institutions.

https://www.abanet.org/legaled/accreditation/Council%20Statements.pdf

Therefore, Ide could have claimed, legitimately, to have a doctorate. 

[Barrister]

Beeb:

If I could walk into law school after high school, I would totally agree, but... I don't think we'll see eye-to-eye on this.

Out of curiosity, though, if you don't need an undergrad degree to get into a Canadian law school, is law school longer?  Like, are there any gen ed requirements, or do they just say, "Here, Contracts, Torts, Property, Crim Law.  Enjoy, 13th graders."

(And I don't have delusions of grandeur! I'd be a terrible lawyer, and I was never the best student, but by God, I feel like it's okay to have some pride in my fucking accomplishment.)

Nope - it's the same three year program.  It's a minimum of two years university.

Now if there was an actual "pre-law" program you had to study before going to law school THEN it would be a masters level program.  But because getting either a geology degree or a history degree both allow you to go to law school, it isn't the same course of studies.

And of course you should take some pride.  But take pride in the LAW part (or if you must, the Juris part ).

A med student once told me you didn't need any pre-med to get into medical school (some science and math requirements, but not a degree focus).  He might've been wrong, I never looked it up myself, as I was locked into my mistake by that point.

Don't listen to the UKE, be proud of yourself Ide.

You don't need to be pre-med for medical school.

Sure you do.

Just because it is nearby

http://ume.med.ualberta.ca/ProspectiveLearners/MDAdmissions/AdmissionRequirements/Pages/default.aspx

Lists a whole bunch of course pre-requisites.

Although I should note they actually list it as the admission requirements for "MD (Doctor of Medicine) undergraduate degree" so I guess I was wrong to call it a masters level program.  Much like Ideo's law degree, an MD is still just an undergraduate degree.

[Barrister]

Amusingly, the ABA claims that a JD is equivalent to a Ph.D.

2. J.D. Degree - Ph.D. Degree Equivalency

WHEREAS, the acquisition of a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree requires from 84 to 90 semester hours of post baccalaureate study and the Doctor of Philosophy degree usually requires 60 semester hours of post baccalaureate study along with
the writing of a dissertation, the two degrees shall be considered as equivalent degrees for educational employment purposes;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that all appropriate persons be requested to eliminate any policy, or practice, existing within their jurisdiction which disparages legal education or promotes discriminatory employment practices against J.D. degree-holders who hold academic appointment in education institutions.

https://www.abanet.org/legaled/accreditation/Council%20Statements.pdf

Therefore, Ide could have claimed, legitimately, to have a doctorate. 

How do they explain the fact that you can, in fact, get a PhD in Law?

[katmai]

Beeb when did you become this fucking stupid.

[Ideologue]

Therefore, Ide could have claimed, legitimately, to have a doctorate. 

Oh shit, brother, I can still change it.

[Malthus]

How do they explain the fact that you can, in fact, get a PhD in Law?

I have no idea.

I giggled mightily when I read it. 

[Malthus]

Therefore, Ide could have claimed, legitimately, to have a doctorate. 

Oh shit, brother, I can still change it.

If they give you any crap, just refer them to the ABA statement. 

[Neil]

How do they explain the fact that you can, in fact, get a PhD in Law?

I have no idea.

I giggled mightily when I read it. 

Well, obviously a Ph.D in law counts as two Ph.Ds. That way, people will think they are smart, rather than sleazy.

[Ideologue]

the acquisition of a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree requires from 84 to 90 semester hours of post baccalaureate study and the Doctor of Philosophy degree usually requires 60 semester hours of post baccalaureate study along with the writing of a dissertation

The part where they equate 30 hours of law school with a dissertation is, from my limited knowledge of dissertations, probably pretty disingenuous.  But if the ABA says it, it must be true.

[Malthus]

the acquisition of a Doctor of Jurisprudence degree requires from 84 to 90 semester hours of post baccalaureate study and the Doctor of Philosophy degree usually requires 60 semester hours of post baccalaureate study along with the writing of a dissertation

The part where they equate 30 hours of law school with a dissertation is, from my limited knowledge of dissertations, probably pretty disingenuous.  But if the ABA says it, it must be true.

Well, in subjective time, those 30 hours doing trusts probably counts for at least four or five years doing original research, right? RIGHT?

[Barrister]

Beeb when did you become this fucking stupid.

When U of T started giving out JDs.