The Off Topic Topic

[Sheilbh]

I don't know what the answer is.  It's proven to be very difficult to run a private news organization in 2023 at least on a local or regional (even Canadian) level.  Outfits like the NYT are able to do it but can leverage being an almost global brand.  But heaven help us if the answer is having to rely on government sponsored news like ORF or CBC.

I don't know if it's necessarily government sponsored, but I've always thought there might be something in a trust model that funds local press.

Separately Canada's looking at a law that's very similar to Australia's media law when they took on social media - and it has delivered real, substantial revenue for Australia media, including specific funding for First Nations and local reporting (which those outlets have said has been transformative). It's not perfect but I think it's a really important model that's probably worth exploring.

[Barrister]

I don't know what the answer is.  It's proven to be very difficult to run a private news organization in 2023 at least on a local or regional (even Canadian) level.  Outfits like the NYT are able to do it but can leverage being an almost global brand.  But heaven help us if the answer is having to rely on government sponsored news like ORF or CBC.

I don't know if it's necessarily government sponsored, but I've always thought there might be something in a trust model that funds local press.

Separately Canada's looking at a law that's very similar to Australia's media law when they took on social media - and it has delivered real, substantial revenue for Australia media, including specific funding for First Nations and local reporting (which those outlets have said has been transformative). It's not perfect but I think it's a really important model that's probably worth exploring.

So Canada within the last few days passed Bill C-11, the Online Streaming Act, which I think you might be referring to.  It gives the CRTC the ability to regulate online streaming services.

So if you're a broadcaster, or even a cable service, you have to show x% of Canadian content.  Now they propose to apply that to streaming services like Youtube or Netflix.  I believe it's faced a lot of opposition though because it's wildly unclear how the Canadian government is going to regulate the recommendations on what Youtube or Netflix is going to show you, and they certainly can't force you to watch x% of Canadian content.

I also thought that Facebook (to pick the prominent example) had refused to link to Australian news sites as a result of the Australian law.

[Duque de Bragança]

Has the Good News International deaths in Kenya made it to your local news? It's a pretty wild story, with more than a hundred dead (110 bodies found so far) - including many children - from starvation, strangulation, and other methods.

Yes it's been extensively covered by Al Jazeera English channel, I think the main reporter has been
 excellent Catherine Choi (sp?)

Been reported by Le Monde, https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2023/05/02/au-kenya-le-pasteur-mackenzie-juge-pour-terrorisme-apres-la-decouverte-de-dizaines-de-cadavres-de-personnes-mortes-de-faim-dans-la-foret_6171821_3212.html. I did not check if it made to the paper itself.

Less so in Portugal, but still mentioned if one looks for it:

https://www.publico.pt/2023/04/29/mundo/noticia/lider-religioso-quenia-admite-15-mortes-intervencoes-espirituais-2047915

[Sheilbh]

So Canada within the last few days passed Bill C-11, the Online Streaming Act, which I think you might be referring to.  It gives the CRTC the ability to regulate online streaming services.

No I think it's this: https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-18 This is very much my area and I worked on my company's response to Australian law - so when it comes to nerdy media law I'm paid to follow this stuff

I know there are differences and I've not read the actual proposal but my understanding is it's very similar - basically mandatory bargaining for platforms sharing content.

I also thought that Facebook (to pick the prominent example) had refused to link to Australian news sites as a result of the Australian law.

No. As with European privacy laws, they threw a tantrum. I think they turned that functionality off for about a week.

From what I've seen Google and Facebook are already throwing similar tantrums at Canada's proposal and using some of the exact same arguments (which weren't born out in Australia's experience - though it's only been a couple of years).

[HVC]

The YouTube part is weird. Supposedly the bill won't be used against "creator content"*, which is all of YouTube, is it not?


*but at the same time I believe legislators refused to put that actual wording in the bill, more of a "trust us guys, we're the government, we wouldn't lie" type situation

[Grey Fox]

The YouTube part is weird. Supposedly the bill won't be used against "creator content"*, which is all of YouTube, is it not?


*but at the same time I believe legislators refused to put that actual wording in the bill, more of a "trust us guys, we're the government, we wouldn't lie" type situation

It's more like we can't actually order the CRTC to do anything specific.

C-11 is a dangerous piece of legislation for how we currently consume online media. In time BCE will own everything.

C-18 is a needed piece of legislation to stop Alphabet, Meta, Twitter and Amazon to suck dry our information culture & replace it by American (Republican) interests.

[Jacob]

I don't know what the answer is.  It's proven to be very difficult to run a private news organization in 2023 at least on a local or regional (even Canadian) level.  Outfits like the NYT are able to do it but can leverage being an almost global brand.  But heaven help us if the answer is having to rely on government sponsored news like ORF or CBC.

... but you yourself just said you rely on CBC already.

Personally I think that public service journalism is a public good in line with roads, education, defense, health care, and so on.

[Barrister]

I don't know what the answer is.  It's proven to be very difficult to run a private news organization in 2023 at least on a local or regional (even Canadian) level.  Outfits like the NYT are able to do it but can leverage being an almost global brand.  But heaven help us if the answer is having to rely on government sponsored news like ORF or CBC.

... but you yourself just said you rely on CBC already.

Personally I think that public service journalism is a public good in line with roads, education, defense, health care, and so on.

The question of bias isn't really an issue though with roads, defense, HC, etc. (yes I left out education - lets not go there right now)

I rely on CBC out of necessity - like I said they're a clean link to provide to someplace like Languish.  It doesn't mean I favour their reporting.

But like I said - I don't know what the answer is.

[Jacob]

The question of bias isn't really an issue though with roads, defense, HC, etc. (yes I left out education - lets not go there right now)

There's absolutely also bias when it comes to roads, defense, health care etc. Where do the resources go geographically? What problems are prioritized and which are given lower priority? How are the services structured and organized? Who gets the contracts?

The CBC is no different. It provides an essential service. It does a reasonable job, but is not beyond criticism.

I rely on CBC out of necessity - like I said they're a clean link to provide to someplace like Languish.  It doesn't mean I favour their reporting.

It's very clear you're not in favour of their reporting, but it is equally clear that they provide a valuable service - as evidenced by the fact that you use it in spite of disapproving of it.

But like I said - I don't know what the answer is.

Isn't the answer from your side of the aisle usually some variation of "destroy the CBC"?

[Josquius]

Today I learned in quebec they have to a basic extent implemented the system I'd use for car tax, taxing people in major metro areas more for owning a car.
+10 points to the yankois.

[Barrister]

But like I said - I don't know what the answer is.

Isn't the answer from your side of the aisle usually some variation of "destroy the CBC"?

I speak for myself and no one else.

Personally, I would continue to subsidize the CBC to the extent of it's radio and rural/northern broadcasts, but would otherwise privatize to put it on equal footing with private broadcasters.

[Admiral Yi]

Beeb, what do you mean when you say the CBC is subsidized?  Doesn't their entire budget come from public funds?

[Jacob]

Beeb, what do you mean when you say the CBC is subsidized?  Doesn't their entire budget come from public funds?

The CBC generates revenue as well. Here's a high level breakdown from 2018-19: https://cbc.radio-canada.ca/en/impact-and-accountability/finances/annual-reports/ar-2018-2019/financial-sustainability/revenue-and-other-funds

[Admiral Yi]

Gotcha

[Barrister]

Beeb, what do you mean when you say the CBC is subsidized?  Doesn't their entire budget come from public funds?

CBC TV does advertising (radio does not).

By the way, the link Jacob provided is absolutely fucking hilarious.  I urge everyone to take a look.  On a quick glance at the chart it makes it look like over half of CBC's total budget comes from non-government revenue.

https://cbc.radio-canada.ca/en/impact-and-accountability/finances/annual-reports/ar-2018-2019/financial-sustainability/revenue-and-other-funds

But look at the Y-axis.  There's a convenient little "~" that chops away one billion dollars.  That billion dollars is all government funding.  So the graph is not a lie - but it is very misleading.  Some might even say intentionally so.

So to answer your question, CBC is funded somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 by government, but not 100%.



I actually ran across that graph on Twitter (complete with the "~"), but because of the source I wasn't sure of its provenance, and didn't share it here.  But now Jacob came along and gave me the source for it.   Thanks buddy!