The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

Jesus Christ - the list jokes about "dads" is now targeting my generation and some of these hit way too close to home
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/what-your-favorite-sad-dad-band-says-about-you

Quite a strange mix of eras there. Pixies and modest mouse

Whereas dads are all of one era.

[Josquius]

I'd appreciate more data on the methodology but this study into how Brits regard class and wealth is... Odd to say the least.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2022/01/does-your-salary-mean-youre-rich-and-what-makes-you-upper-middle-or-working-class-we-ask-the-british-public

[garbon]

I'd appreciate more data on the methodology but this study into how Brits regard class and wealth is... Odd to say the least.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2022/01/does-your-salary-mean-youre-rich-and-what-makes-you-upper-middle-or-working-class-we-ask-the-british-public

In what way? That income and class aren't a 1:1 link?

[Sheilbh]

I think that's all broadly what I'd expect - some of the lifestyle signifiers are a bit weird/specific - but I think it fits with how people talk about and understand class.

[Iormlund]

Seems a bit strange to link salary with class directly, except in one way:

Do you need a salary? Then you are not rich. Do you need your next month or two worth of salary? Then you are working class. Those in between are middle class.

[Jacob]

I'd appreciate more data on the methodology but this study into how Brits regard class and wealth is... Odd to say the least.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2022/01/does-your-salary-mean-youre-rich-and-what-makes-you-upper-middle-or-working-class-we-ask-the-british-public

In what way? That income and class aren't a 1:1 link?

The one that stood out to me is that it's an indication of being middle class "take at least one overseas vacation a year" while working class people "fly RyanAir or EasyJet".

Presumably those working class people are mostly flying on holidays (rather than for work), which rather implies a high number of overseas vacations.

[Sheilbh]

The one that stood out to me is that it's an indication of being middle class "take at least one overseas vacation a year" while working class people "fly RyanAir or EasyJet".

Presumably those working class people are mostly flying on holidays (rather than for work), which rather implies a high number of overseas vacations.

Although that's the lowest indicator with only 39% - I think probably because working class people also go on at least one overseas holiday a year.

But the Easyjet/Ryanair one is weird because I think everyone uses them.

Aldi and Lidl seems fair because every middle class person who's used one of those shops will tell you about it at length, and how reasonable and actually "pretty good" the products are

[garbon]

I avoid easyjet and particularly Ryanair whenever possible. Economy is awful enough.

[Josquius]

What got me was defining 40k+ as a high earner. I wonder if the problem is people's minds being stuck a decade or two in the past. I remember when 30k seemed a lot. 35-60 or so is solidly middle territory with high earner only starting above that.

Seems a bit strange to link salary with class directly, except in one way:

Do you need a salary? Then you are not rich. Do you need your next month or two worth of salary? Then you are working class. Those in between are middle class.

Salary and class have zero relationship in my book.
A plumber on 60k+ a year is firmly working class whilst a museum curator scraping by on minimum wage is very much in a middle class job.

Not that your current job necessarily even dictates it. It's the job of your parents growing up which you inherit - it's only after you've been in a job of your own longer than you were their dependent that your previous class status comes into question.

[Sheilbh]

Isn't that basically just caste though, not class?

I think it's also how you have multi-millionaire law firm partners claiming they're/genuinely viewing themselves as working class because a grandparent was a docker.

As I say, I think the survey sounds like what I'd expect British people to think. Of course the right answer on class is what someone's relationship to capital is

[Josquius]

As I say its what made you rather than your current situation.
If your grandad was a docker but your dad was a stock broker and you grew up in a million quid house and went to private school then calling yourself working class is a joke.
If however your dad was the one with the modest job and you're only 10 years into your professional career... Then that's legit. Though do check back when you're in your 50s.

It's pretty often that i run into the idea that you cease to be working class if you go to university and thus it's a betrayal to do this. I find great issue with this. Getting an education and then securing good paying work doesn't erase the previous decades and the struggle to get where you did.

[celedhring]

A friend of mine used to live in the Walden-7 building. I loved crashing his place.

Was it a nice place to live in? In this country we all like to look at the homes our famous architects designed but they are usually fairly unpopular to actually live in due to all their eccentricities.

Well, I didn't live in there, but it seemed livable enough. A bit loft-ish, which was unusual for Spanish apartments of the time. Walden-7 was built as social housing, so it was supposed to be practical.

The public space (i.e. corridors/stairs) and how each unit nested with each other was pretty laybirinthine/confusing though.

[Syt]

Austrian ISPs have issued a press statement. They complain about the traffic caused by people using streaming services. They demand that platforms like Netflix, Amazon and Disney should pay up, because they generate significant revenue while using the infrastructure for free.

Though I kind of wonder what I'm paying my internet provider for, then. 

[Sheilbh]

A friend of mine used to live in the Walden-7 building. I loved crashing his place.

Was it a nice place to live in? In this country we all like to look at the homes our famous architects designed but they are usually fairly unpopular to actually live in due to all their eccentricities.

Well, I didn't live in there, but it seemed livable enough. A bit loft-ish, which was unusual for Spanish apartments of the time. Walden-7 was built as social housing, so it was supposed to be practical.

The public space (i.e. corridors/stairs) and how each unit nested with each other was pretty laybirinthine/confusing though.

We've done both with our, generally brutalist, blocks designed by famous architects. They were normally council housing, became incredibly run-down and associated with crime, urban decay, poverty etc (because they weren't maintained/looked after).

Now they've often become incredibly popular because the space for each flat is actually pretty generous and often thoughtfully designed and there's lots of middle-aged hipsters who can tastefully decorate them in a nice mid-century modern style. So now they're quite expensive and better maintained - but there's normally still a core of council housing that's not been bought up.

I don't live in any particularly iconic building but my flat is in an inter-war "homes for heroes" block. I rent privately but the building is looked after by the council and there's a mix of council flats, private renters and private owners.

[Josquius]

Austrian ISPs have issued a press statement. They complain about the traffic caused by people using streaming services. They demand that platforms like Netflix, Amazon and Disney should pay up, because they generate significant revenue while using the infrastructure for free.

Though I kind of wonder what I'm paying my internet provider for, then. 

I mean.. I guess it's one angle on wanting them to pay their taxes.