The Off Topic Topic

[Josquius]

Aye, the test sucks.
https://www.historytoday.com/archive/making-history/testing-times

What happened when a historian took the 'Life in the UK' test for British citizenship?

'Which of the following statements is correct?:
A) Elizabeth I handled Parliament very badly during her reign.
B) Elizabeth I had very good relations with Parliament.'

As a senior lecturer in Early Modern History, who has published on this topic, I honestly have no idea what the answer to this question is, though I suspect a book-length answer. As an immigrant to Britain, however, seeking to demonstrate that I understand what 'Life in the UK' is about, I need to know the answer, along with hundreds of others on British history, 'values', government and society. These questions, as well as being frequently stupefying, tell us how history is being employed to project and protect a certain view of 'Britishness'.

[celedhring]

The questions in the Spanish exam are really specific, which makes it look quite hard ("what documents do you need to switch your registration to a different public hospital?"), but ultimately they come out of a pool of 300 which is available for download, which makes the exam easier (and ultimately pointless as proof of "integration", but I'd get rid of the entire thing anyway).

[Josquius]

The questions in the Spanish exam are really specific, which makes it look quite hard ("what documents do you need to switch your registration to a different public hospital?"), but ultimately they come out of a pool of 300 which is available for download, which makes the exam easier (and ultimately pointless as proof of "integration", but I'd get rid of the entire thing anyway).

That sounds horrid.
The Geneva one I recall seeing is also annoyingly specific but a bit more sane, questions like on what street is the cantonal museum and such
https://www.naturalisation-switzerland.ch/en/gooquiz/geneva/

[Syt]

Just had a look at a sample test for Austrian citizenship, Vienna flavor (each state can add their own local questions).

Nothing fully outlandish (some landmarks like what is located between the museums of natural and art history NHM and KHM, some questions about society and political structure). The most historic questions that came up were about when Austria became a federal country (1920), who the only female Habsburg ruler was, and which reforms were enacted following the 1848 revolution, none seemed controversial.

[Sheilbh]

The questions in the Spanish exam are really specific, which makes it look quite hard ("what documents do you need to switch your registration to a different public hospital?"), but ultimately they come out of a pool of 300 which is available for download, which makes the exam easier (and ultimately pointless as proof of "integration", but I'd get rid of the entire thing anyway).

Yeah. So I think the nuance might be lost but my understanding is all of the questions come from a "Life in the UK" handbook/textbook. I don't think it's asking you to assess Elizabeth I's reign, it's a multiple choice question where they want the answer in the textbook.

Not unlike a professional qualification I was doing recently where I kept on looking at questions and (lawyerly) pondering that it really depends on the nuance/is a bit unclear. Then I remembered they just wanted the answer from the book

[The Larch]

The questions in the Spanish exam are really specific, which makes it look quite hard ("what documents do you need to switch your registration to a different public hospital?"), but ultimately they come out of a pool of 300 which is available for download, which makes the exam easier (and ultimately pointless as proof of "integration", but I'd get rid of the entire thing anyway).

It's ridiculous because you and me don't have to know by heart what kind of paperwork we'd need to do that registration switch unless we'd see ourselves in that situation. There's no point in knowing that by heart, it doesn't prove what a good citizen you are to know the route around a bureaucratic procedure. If it was up to me, at most it'd be a language test and extremely basic questions about the system of government, tops.

[Richard Hakluyt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQns0jhy4k

[celedhring]

The questions in the Spanish exam are really specific, which makes it look quite hard ("what documents do you need to switch your registration to a different public hospital?"), but ultimately they come out of a pool of 300 which is available for download, which makes the exam easier (and ultimately pointless as proof of "integration", but I'd get rid of the entire thing anyway).

It's ridiculous because you and me don't have to know by heart what kind of paperwork we'd need to do that registration switch unless we'd see ourselves in that situation. There¡'s no point in knowing that by heart, it doesn't prove what a good citizen you are to know the route around a bureaucratic procedure. If it was up to me, at most it'd be a language test and extremely basic questions about the system of government, tops.

Yeah, I'd just ask the clerk. Again, since the questions are available beforehand, it's just another pointless hoop immigrants have to jump through.

[The Larch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNQns0jhy4k

A true classic. 

[Josquius]

That Mao

Have to think Marx would have known the West Ham question if he was from the era though

[Sheilbh]

It's ridiculous because you and me don't have to know by heart what kind of paperwork we'd need to do that registration switch unless we'd see ourselves in that situation. There's no point in knowing that by heart, it doesn't prove what a good citizen you are to know the route around a bureaucratic procedure. If it was up to me, at most it'd be a language test and extremely basic questions about the system of government, tops.

I think ours is under review and was only introduced in 2005, same time that they introduced the English language test and citizenship ceremonies. Before then there weren't any tests or any ceremonies and it was quite a dry administrative procedure. Apparently the ceremonies in particular have been really popular because people have applied for citizenship, it's normally quite a big deal and there was nothing to mark that event, just a letter from the Home Office.

From my understanding the test is a mix. So it covers history, culture (what type of show do theatres put on at Christmas), government (who appoints Chief Constables, which minister is responsible for the economy, what are the different courts, what is the goal of the United Nations) and some geography (what's the capital of Scotland, which county is Stonehenge in). The idea is that people understand references that come up in "life in the UK". The historical stuff is always getting attention because "Britishness" is always being debated (I feel like other countries have fewer endless debates about what we are, who we are, are we a country etc) And there's always British people on Twitter saying it's pretty impossible grab-bag of trivia but it does have a 70% pass rate so, that maybe just says more about us

But there is criticism that it's basically trivia and doesn't really address day to day life - which is more like the bureaucratic question you're talking about, you know who do you speak to to acces x public service. Which does feel like a gap but then, as you say, I don't know about that until I need it and then I google to find what I need to do and also it feels a bit desiccated if life in x country is reduced to which form you need to fill in for what.

I feel like it should be sort of light and easy as a test because the other bits of applying for citizenship are hard work, so that probably means you need lots of generalisations - we're not asking people to have a qualification in history and a detailed understanding of Elizabet's conflict with the Puritan choir. But it should cover some practicalities as well and modern British culture. Which all sounds quite difficult to get into one thing

[The Larch]

You're not *that* special, Spanishness is also a contentious term. 

Regarding the test, I think useful questions would be things like "Which level of government has competences over health services?" and answers being local, regional or national, or things like "At what age do people earn the right to vote/drink alcohol/get married?" or questions on how education is structured (primary is from x to y year, secondary from this to that, official exams are at the end of these years), stuff like that.

[The Brain]

Have you played Paranoia? Senseless questions are great for keeping people off balance and in a perpetual state of fear.

[Sheilbh]

You're not *that* special, Spanishness is also a contentious term. 

Fair. But you all post the latest controversies less except for the Catalans

Regarding the test, I think useful questions would be things like "Which level of government has competences over health services?" and answers being local, regional or national, or things like "At what age do people earn the right to vote/drink alcohol/get married?" or questions on how education is structured (primary is from x to y year, secondary from this to that, official exams are at the end of these years), stuff like that.

I think the voting/drink alcohol etc question is one of the questions that you can get asked (there's a tonne of them and then each test is a random selection). I'm not sure about the school thing though (and also it depends on which country or local authority area you're in).

[Eddie Teach]

That Mao

Have to think Marx would have known the West Ham question if he was from the era though

I doubt many Germans would know that today.