European Islamophobia

[Razgovory]

It's a rather odd sight to see some North American posters taking Europeans to task over they're attitudes to muslim and islam, given the overtly racists attitudes expressed here by a few of those same posters in the run up to, and the immediate aftermath of Iraq war.

Links, plz.

Islam is a threat.  All Muslims are with the terrorists.

Same page as this one.

[dps]

It's a rather odd sight to see some North American posters taking Europeans to task over they're attitudes to muslim and islam, given the overtly racists attitudes expressed here by a few of those same posters in the run up to, and the immediate aftermath of Iraq war.

Links, plz.

Islam is a threat.  All Muslims are with the terrorists.

Same page as this one.

Wasn't expressed during the run-up to, and immediate aftermath of the Iraq War.

And I agree with your earlier implies sentiment that it's surprising to find Yi taking the Grallon position.

[garbon]

It's a rather odd sight to see some North American posters taking Europeans to task over they're attitudes to muslim and islam, given the overtly racists attitudes expressed here by a few of those same posters in the run up to, and the immediate aftermath of Iraq war.

Links, plz.

Islam is a threat.  All Muslims are with the terrorists.

Same page as this one.

Wasn't expressed during the run-up to, and immediate aftermath of the Iraq War.

And I agree with your earlier implies sentiment that it's surprising to find Yi taking the Grallon position.

Yi wasn't being serious was he? After all, shortly thereafter he said that he doesn't know a single person that holds the position that all muslims are with the terrorists.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I thought that was tongue in cheek.

[Admiral Yi]

It was tongue in cheek.

[derspiess]

Yeah seemed pretty obvious to me. 

[CountDeMoney]

Mongers is right, IMO, that a number of American posters were pretty anti-Muslim around the Iraq wars etc.

During periods of war, it's common to root for the home team.

I don't think it's particularly ironic, in that the posters who were are not the same ones as are taking Euros to task over any anti-Muslim attitudes. Except possibly CdM, but that's just how he rolls with this stuff - generally progressive in outlook, incredibly racist in mode of expression, always willing to tell Euros they're shit... and everyone else too, really.

I've not taking Europeans to task for any anti-Muslim attitudes, and I'd like to see in this thread where you have evidence that I have. But since you insist on judging me as is your wont, I'll play, pigeon.

I don't need to take Europeans to task for anti-Muslim attitudes, since European anti-Muslim sentiment is just symptomatic of their greater xenophobia and ethnocentric racism in general, so it's just really Europe being Europe.  Watching proponents of the EU bitch about Turkish "debt" is like watching Southerns whites use "state's rights", it's all just code.  That's what's so hilarious about European hypocrisy.  As if the Balkans in the 90s wasn't enough of an example, look at the general apathy over the Ukraine:  it's all anti-Russian more so than being pro-Ukrainian, since the Ukrainians are another people the "real" Europeans couldn't give two shits about, either.  Come to think of it, they've never given two shits about anybody east of the Oder.  But I don't take them to task for it.  I just call them out on their hypocritical enlightened bullshit.

It doesn't help Europe that very liberal political asylum laws, in allowing a massive influx of Muslim immigrants from conflict zones in a very short time span, have resulted in more fractured, polarized and militant communities than those the usual forms of staggered and procedural immigration processes create:  those that take years of working towards the employment, established residencies and solid incomes that help immigrant communities in integrating and assimilating into their new home economies.  But those are political choices Europeans have made. Deal.

[Berkut]

Mongers is right, IMO, that a number of American posters were pretty anti-Muslim around the Iraq wars etc.

I don't think it's particularly ironic, in that the posters who were are not the same ones as are taking Euros to task over any anti-Muslim attitudes.

But that's exactly the thing. He's spinning a narrative of hypocritical Americans who espouse anti-muslim attitudes and then are now taking Euros to task over that.

He probably has a hard time telling Americans apart from one another.

Well I have a hard time recalling the ones who weren't at the time revelling in some of the violence meeted out in Iraq.   

Do you recall that thread we had about the apache helicopter footage released by I  think by wikileaks, that showed those Iraqi, militia and/or civilians being chewed up by cannon fire and possibly missile strikes, iirc several posters thought that pretty neat. Are one or two of those now taking a more nuanced approach to the Middle East and Muslim, both in the light of experience and as an opportunity to attack Europeans ? 

I can't prove these, because we don't have the old databases of posting nor the access the original Paradox OT. 
So it's just my impression, does that make it untruthful?

I remember that discussion, and I cannot recall a single poster, American or otherwise, who thought it was "kind of neat".

I think you are full of shit.

[Jacob]

I've not taking Europeans to task for any anti-Muslim attitudes, and I'd like to see in this thread where you have evidence that I have.

I wasn't sure, thus the "perhaps". I conflated your habitual upbraiding of Euros for their anti-Semitism with the current topic. My apologies for the mistake.

But since you insist on judging me as is your wont, I'll play, pigeon.

I don't need to take Europeans to task for anti-Muslim attitudes, since European anti-Muslim sentiment is just symptomatic of their greater xenophobia and ethnocentric racism in general, so it's just really Europe being Europe.  Watching proponents of the EU bitch about Turkish "debt" is like watching Southerns whites use "state's rights", it's all just code.  That's what's so hilarious about European hypocrisy.  As if the Balkans in the 90s wasn't enough of an example, look at the general apathy over the Ukraine:  it's all anti-Russian more so than being pro-Ukrainian, since the Ukrainians are another people the "real" Europeans couldn't give two shits about, either.  Come to think of it, they've never given two shits about anybody east of the Oder.  But I don't take them to task for it.  I just call them out on their hypocritical enlightened bullshit.

It doesn't help Europe that very liberal political asylum laws, in allowing a massive influx of Muslim immigrants from conflict zones in a very short time span, have resulted in more fractured, polarized and militant communities than those the usual forms of staggered and procedural immigration processes create:  those that take years of working towards the employment, established residencies and solid incomes that help immigrant communities in integrating and assimilating into their new home economies.  But those are political choices Europeans have made. Deal.

That's all pretty on point. No arguments from me.

[CountDeMoney]

I conflated your habitual upbraiding of Euros for their anti-Semitism with the current topic. My apologies for the mistake.

It happens.  In monkey shit fights, everybody gets a little wet.  Apology accepted. 

[Syt]

From The Economist:

[Razgovory]

Yeah I thought that was tongue in cheek.

It's not entirely inconsistent with what statements he's made here before.

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,10303.0.html

I definitely get a negative vibe here.

[11B4V]

Sorry dont see it.

[Duque de Bragança]

Mongers is right, IMO, that a number of American posters were pretty anti-Muslim around the Iraq wars etc.

During periods of war, it's common to root for the home team.

I don't think it's particularly ironic, in that the posters who were are not the same ones as are taking Euros to task over any anti-Muslim attitudes. Except possibly CdM, but that's just how he rolls with this stuff - generally progressive in outlook, incredibly racist in mode of expression, always willing to tell Euros they're shit... and everyone else too, really.

I've not taking Europeans to task for any anti-Muslim attitudes, and I'd like to see in this thread where you have evidence that I have. But since you insist on judging me as is your wont, I'll play, pigeon.

I don't need to take Europeans to task for anti-Muslim attitudes, since European anti-Muslim sentiment is just symptomatic of their greater xenophobia and ethnocentric racism in general, so it's just really Europe being Europe.  Watching proponents of the EU bitch about Turkish "debt" is like watching Southerns whites use "state's rights", it's all just code.  That's what's so hilarious about European hypocrisy.  As if the Balkans in the 90s wasn't enough of an example, look at the general apathy over the Ukraine:  it's all anti-Russian more so than being pro-Ukrainian, since the Ukrainians are another people the "real" Europeans couldn't give two shits about, either.  Come to think of it, they've never given two shits about anybody east of the Oder.  But I don't take them to task for it.  I just call them out on their hypocritical enlightened bullshit.

It doesn't help Europe that very liberal political asylum laws, in allowing a massive influx of Muslim immigrants from conflict zones in a very short time span, have resulted in more fractured, polarized and militant communities than those the usual forms of staggered and procedural immigration processes create:  those that take years of working towards the employment, established residencies and solid incomes that help immigrant communities in integrating and assimilating into their new home economies.  But those are political choices Europeans have made. Deal.

Don't recall somebody bitching here or anywhere about Turkish "debt", please explain. The massive influx of Muslim immigrants in France is not directly linked to generous asylum laws.
Illegal immigration is an issue, and a very lax policy right now thanks to Hollande and its ilk.
As for the alleged choices Europeans have made that's wrong, nobody was asked for instance to grant easy family regrouping in the '70s (the PC left makes it even taboo to question it) and nobody serious proposes ending it in a realistic way. The only ones serious about it are the FN, but their economic policy would be a huge disaster. I can accept ending dual citizenship, or much stronger naturalisation criteria or even the end of Jus soli, but the nonsense about the EU or even the Euro is staggering.

[Martinus]

Does the world think all Muslims are with the terrorists?  I think not, so I think the cartoonist is full of shit.

That's a strangely absolutist and literal way to read cartoons. By that metric most of the the cartoons we've seen from Charlie Hebdo and in response to the shootings are full of shit too.

I don't think many people here are defending accuracy or insightfulness of Charlie Hebdo cartoons. Or using them to prove a point.