European Islamophobia

[mongers]

...

Incidentally, you are probably the one who comes to my mind as having done a complete u-turn on the muslim question. Hell, even your original name was anti-war.

No I was against the 'illegal' toppling of a nasty regime, which for better and worse was keeping a lid on most of this sort of thing; now we have ISIL and these sympathiser terrorists in France.

I think it's been pretty clear for years, even during Paradox OT that my distaste is for the corrupt 'royal' Saudi regime, which is the wellspring for much of the hate propaganda in the region, some of which reaches into Western muslim communities.

[Malthus]

"- 24% would ban Muslims from immigrating"

Seems at least some evidence.

Not really. Banning people from immigrating is a bit different than wanting to curtail rights of people who are citizens.

The issue isn't "curtailing rights of Muslim citizens", it is the more general one of 'do a sizable number of Westerners see Muslims as, in general, sympathetic to terrorism".

To my mind, it seems hard to argue that this sentiment doesn't exist.

[Malthus]

Well, to be honest, the only Americans who are now taking Europeans to task over islamophobia are really Raz (who is insane) and garbon (who wasn't even posting during the Iraq war and if he was, he would have probably said something snide he read on salon.com). The key critics of European islamophobia seem to be Anglo-saxon Canucks and pseudo-Canucks (like Jacob) and I don't remember them cheering Iraq war that much (Malthus is the only one who occassionally takes islamophobic stances, but that's only when Israel is doing the killing and he is getting transmissions from the Mother Ship). 

I remember CdM and Berkut were cheering on glassing the Middle East but they are not now in the forefront of the ponytail islamic apologists brigade (CdM is just sniping out of spite for everything and everyone).

Incidentally, you are probably the one who comes to my mind as having done a complete u-turn on the muslim question. Hell, even your original name was anti-war.

I challenge anyone to find a single post in which I have ever taken an "Islamophobic stance".

[crazy canuck]

Well, to be honest, the only Americans who are now taking Europeans to task over islamophobia are really Raz (who is insane) and garbon (who wasn't even posting during the Iraq war and if he was, he would have probably said something snide he read on salon.com). The key critics of European islamophobia seem to be Anglo-saxon Canucks and pseudo-Canucks (like Jacob) and I don't remember them cheering Iraq war that much (Malthus is the only one who occassionally takes islamophobic stances, but that's only when Israel is doing the killing and he is getting transmissions from the Mother Ship). 

I remember CdM and Berkut were cheering on glassing the Middle East but they are not now in the forefront of the ponytail islamic apologists brigade (CdM is just sniping out of spite for everything and everyone).

Incidentally, you are probably the one who comes to my mind as having done a complete u-turn on the muslim question. Hell, even your original name was anti-war.

I challenge anyone to find a single post in which I have ever taken an "Islamophobic stance".

Your anti Islam stance is as well documented as your anti French stance - ie as substantive as the intellectually dishonest posts of some Languishites.

Also, I have a vague recollection of someone accusing Berkut about wanting something "glassed" a while back and the accusation was shown to be completely false.

The one thing going against you is your need to purchase 20,000 dollar strollers and so people will believe almost anything about you now.

[Martinus]

Well, to be honest, the only Americans who are now taking Europeans to task over islamophobia are really Raz (who is insane) and garbon (who wasn't even posting during the Iraq war and if he was, he would have probably said something snide he read on salon.com). The key critics of European islamophobia seem to be Anglo-saxon Canucks and pseudo-Canucks (like Jacob) and I don't remember them cheering Iraq war that much (Malthus is the only one who occassionally takes islamophobic stances, but that's only when Israel is doing the killing and he is getting transmissions from the Mother Ship). 

I remember CdM and Berkut were cheering on glassing the Middle East but they are not now in the forefront of the ponytail islamic apologists brigade (CdM is just sniping out of spite for everything and everyone).

Incidentally, you are probably the one who comes to my mind as having done a complete u-turn on the muslim question. Hell, even your original name was anti-war.

I challenge anyone to find a single post in which I have ever taken an "Islamophobic stance".

Fine, what I meant you took an unreasonably pro-Israeli position on an Israel-Palestine issue. Better?

[derspiess]

unreasonably pro-Israeli position

Not possible.

[Malthus]

Fine, what I meant you took an unreasonably pro-Israeli position on an Israel-Palestine issue. Better?

Well, sure. Though one could debate how "unreasonable" any particular position is.

Being in favour of Israel (a reasonably open and democratic society) over Palestine (anything but), as a generalization, seems to me reasonable enough. To give but one example - where would you rather be? Tel Aviv, or Gaza?   

[Martinus]

Fine, what I meant you took an unreasonably pro-Israeli position on an Israel-Palestine issue. Better?

Well, sure. Though one could debate how "unreasonable" any particular position is.

Being in favour of Israel (a reasonably open and democratic society) over Palestine (anything but), as a generalization, seems to me reasonable enough. To give but one example - where would you rather be? Tel Aviv, or Gaza?

Oh I know. I don't remember details, to be honest - I remember this was something we disagreed on, so your position must have been unreasonable by definition.

[Jacob]

Fine, what I meant you took an unreasonably pro-Israeli position on an Israel-Palestine issue. Better?

Well, sure. Though one could debate how "unreasonable" any particular position is.

Being in favour of Israel (a reasonably open and democratic society) over Palestine (anything but), as a generalization, seems to me reasonable enough. To give but one example - where would you rather be? Tel Aviv, or Gaza?

Oh I know. I don't remember details, to be honest - I remember this was something we disagreed on, so your position must have been unreasonable by definition.

Hmmm... I'm not sure I find that persuasive.

[Jacob]

You know guys, the search function works once again at Paradox OT. Someone with time could go and find all these instances. #research #primarysources

#dontbesilly

[Jacob]

See, Jacob, Malthus and others. This is what I am talking about. This is not just about Muslim terrorism. I don't want to live in a country where laws like this exist - and while most Muslims may not approve of terrorism, will you guarantee to me that a substantial part of Muslims do not approve of laws like this?

Why do we have to guarantee that Muslims do no approve of laws like that?

All kinds of people approve of all kinds of stupid laws. How many Poles in the UK think Russian anti-gay and family protection laws are swell? Do you want us to extend guarantees about that as well? 

[The Minsky Moment]

Bottom line is that for some reason Malthus wants to glass Gaza.
Probably because of all the French speakers there.

[Martinus]

Bottom line is that for some reason Malthus wants to glass Gaza.
Probably because of all the French speakers there.

That or he wants glass gauze. Most likely in order to mount it on his $20,000 stroller.

[Martinus]

See, Jacob, Malthus and others. This is what I am talking about. This is not just about Muslim terrorism. I don't want to live in a country where laws like this exist - and while most Muslims may not approve of terrorism, will you guarantee to me that a substantial part of Muslims do not approve of laws like this?

Why do we have to guarantee that Muslims do no approve of laws like that?

All kinds of people approve of all kinds of stupid laws. How many Poles in the UK think Russian anti-gay and family protection laws are swell? Do you want us to extend guarantees about that as well?

Well, if I were British, I'd want Poles out too. The only reason I support Poland's membership in the EU is because it drags Poland, kicking and screaming, into Western civilisation. If I were a part of a nation already firmly entrenched in the Western civilisation, I would want these antisemitic Catholic troglodytes out.

[Legbiter]

Now that the Islamoids are dead we can go back to pretending they're fringe outliers and go back to fighting Islamophobia.