Apple chief Tim Cook: 'I'm proud to be gay'

[Admiral Yi]

That was Languish's take not so recently in a discussion about a general lack of gay ceos in top companies.

  We have very different conceptions of "Languish's take," you and I.

[Martinus]

Ok, Yi, derspiess, and Valmy: are you guys saying that being openly gay has absolutely no negative impact on someone's chances of being promoted compared to a straight family man?

I am not saying that it would mean someone is barred from being promoted, just that it is at best a neutral trait and, more likely, a negative. If one candidate is gay and clearly better than the straight one, then (hopefully), the gay one will get the job - but if you have two comparable candidates, the choice will almost always be with the straight one. And as I said in the other post, this may not even be related to people considering gays to be "icky" but the fact that gay people (at least until recently, in the US - but still not in Poland) simply do not have as many options of integrating with the majority at as many levels where contacts are being made etc.

So I am not even saying that this is necessary a deliberate discrimination - but simply that gay people have it harder than straight people, in otherwise comparable circumstances.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm saying you presented prima facie evidence that it is an impediment (in the other thread), but without knowing the representation of gays in the pool of potential CEOs it can't be determined conclusively.

[Martinus]

I'm saying you presented prima facie evidence that it is an impediment (in the other thread), but without knowing the representation of gays in the pool of potential CEOs it can't be determined conclusively.

Why would the representation of gay people among potential CEOs be different that representation of gay people in the general populace though? This seems an extraordinary claims.

[Admiral Yi]

Why would the representation of gay people among potential CEOs be different that representation of gay people in the general populace though? This seems an extraordinary claims.

Surely you don't believe that gay representation in jobs is identical to straight.  Take the obvious overrepresentation in fashion, the arts, acting, and flight attendants, just to start.

Or how many gays have formed start ups?

[Sheilbh]

I really don't get the point of this. Or why it's news. He wasn't in a glass closet. He was out. I've seen him on the Pink List for years. He's been named the most influential/powerful (I forget which) gay person in the world in a few mags. It wasn't even an open secret, it doesn't even qualify as an Elton John-level coming out.

What difference does this make?

I suspect there's quite a lot of variability within industries. There are numerous major companies in luxury goods and fashion with gay CEOs. I wouldn't be surprised if tech had a pretty representative number of senior gay executives.

I think it's much less common and much more of a big deal in other industries like finance, law and energy. See Lord Browne, formerly senior in Standard Oil and CEO of BP. He'd stayed more or less in the closet (though given he later wrote a book called 'The Glass Closet' it may have been of that type) professionally but a former lover (and the Daily Mail) were going to out him and he resigned. Later he said he wished he'd been braver earlier. Now he's got lots of non-executive roles.

[Valmy]

Ok, Yi, derspiess, and Valmy: are you guys saying that being openly gay has absolutely no negative impact on someone's chances of being promoted compared to a straight family man?

What I am saying is that, especially in elite circles in hip industries like tech, it is not the big deal it once was and you are going to see more and more of this as time goes on.  You were freaking out in the other thread that not one of them was gay.  I said have a little patience, bastions like these fall slower than others and soon you will see a good number of them.  I have no idea if we will reach some sort of Platonic ideal where things have no negative impact on someone's chances of being promoted in all cases sometime soon.

[Valmy]

Seems like you're acting like his gayness was an obstacle to his success.  But maybe I'm reading that wrong.

That was Languish's take not so recently in a discussion about a general lack of gay ceos in top companies.

Is your take different?

[dps]

Finally, you have to remember that absence of privilege is also an obstacle - I have seen the fact "oh, he has a stable life, has wife and kids" used as an advantage in deciding on someone's promotion..

OTOH, I've seen, "Oh, he's single and has no family, so he has no reason to not put in a lot of overtime" presented as an advantage, too.

[Valmy]

Finally, you have to remember that absence of privilege is also an obstacle - I have seen the fact "oh, he has a stable life, has wife and kids" used as an advantage in deciding on someone's promotion..

OTOH, I've seen, "Oh, he's single and has no family, so he has no reason to not put in a lot of overtime" presented as an advantage, too.

Right.  Fighting for promotions and jobs is all about spinning whatever your conditions are to your advantage.  Besides these days gay people can marry and have kids where a lot of these Corps are headquartered.

[derspiess]

Finally, you have to remember that absence of privilege is also an obstacle - I have seen the fact "oh, he has a stable life, has wife and kids" used as an advantage in deciding on someone's promotion..

OTOH, I've seen, "Oh, he's single and has no family, so he has no reason to not put in a lot of overtime" presented as an advantage, too.

SINGLE PRIVILEGE

[Jacob]

SINGLE PRIVILEGE

Came across a study recently that claimed that married men make significantly more money on average than similar single men. Apparently the same applies to women, though the difference is less.

[Valmy]

SINGLE PRIVILEGE

Came across a study recently that claimed that married men make significantly more money on average than similar single men. Apparently the same applies to women, though the difference is less.

That makes no sense.  Can you link to that study?

[MadImmortalMan]

Why would the representation of gay people among potential CEOs be different that representation of gay people in the general populace though? This seems an extraordinary claims.

I stand by my suggestion that it might not be reasonable to expect to find an equal proportion of any minority in the CEO population statistically. However, I also think there are a lot of things about gays demographically that may actually make them more likely to be successful than the average. Which may be a correlation without causation.

[Ed Anger]

Ugh, my Apple stock is tainted.