Berkely students petition to stop Bill Maher from delivering commencement addres

[The Minsky Moment]

The various groups of islamists do hate each other because the revolution eats it's children. But the case you are making here is analogous to saying that communist revolutions weren't about communist ideology because people have always been fighting. I don't accept that. Ideas and values do matter. When your self proclaimed ideology instructs you to fight, kill and oppress other regligious groups and you do just that then Ideology matters.

Revolution is central to Communism.  But the ideology of ISIL is not all at the core of Islam at all - the vast majority of Muslims and schools of Islamic theology and thought reject it.  If you were correct than Indonesia - the largest Muslim country on the planet - should be a murderous hell-hole.  But quite to the contrary.

I am not questioning the sincerity of what the individuals say anymore than I would question the sincerity of the 1970s era terrorists who claimed they were murdering Jews for the sake of the international proletariat.

[Admiral Yi]

Yet there have been, and still are, self proclaimed communists who do not engage in revolution.

Conquest and forced submission is as central to Islam as revolution is to communism.

[The Brain]

Science, Minsky-style: ionizing radiation doesn't cause cancer because there are people who have receieved high doses who haven't developed cancer.

[Josephus]

People say that about Indonesia to Bill Maher (to go back to the OP), but Maher then rudely changes subject and talks about Arab Muslims.

[Viking]

The various groups of islamists do hate each other because the revolution eats it's children. But the case you are making here is analogous to saying that communist revolutions weren't about communist ideology because people have always been fighting. I don't accept that. Ideas and values do matter. When your self proclaimed ideology instructs you to fight, kill and oppress other regligious groups and you do just that then Ideology matters.

Revolution is central to Communism.  But the ideology of ISIL is not all at the core of Islam at all - the vast majority of Muslims and schools of Islamic theology and thought reject it.  If you were correct than Indonesia - the largest Muslim country on the planet - should be a murderous hell-hole.  But quite to the contrary.

I am not questioning the sincerity of what the individuals say anymore than I would question the sincerity of the 1970s era terrorists who claimed they were murdering Jews for the sake of the international proletariat.

Yes, and for most the the past 20 years it has been. Aceh, East Timor, Borneo, Irian Jaya etc.



This was one of the things done. 10 years Jemaah Islamiah was not only bombing places where tourists spent their money it was murdering christians by burning their churches with people inside.

That is with the huge and amazing islamic civic organizations it has, unique in the islamic world, which primarily run schools which teach teh three "R"s and run mosques of the least radical type.

[The Brain]

Those aren't true Moslemmen.

[Viking]

Those aren't true Moslemmen.

true muslims wear skirts and eat sheeps bellies stuffed with offal.

[crazy canuck]

Conquest and forced submission is as central to Islam as revolution is to communism.

Care to explain why you believe that to be true?

[The Minsky Moment]

Conquest and forced submission is as central to Islam as revolution is to communism.

That is nonsense.  It is certainly no more central to Islam than to Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

[Admiral Yi]

That is nonsense.  It is certainly no more central to Islam than to Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

Christianity has one golden rule.  Islam has seven pillars of faith.  Can't get more central than that.

[crazy canuck]

That is nonsense.  It is certainly no more central to Islam than to Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

Christianity has one golden rule.  Islam has seven pillars of faith.  Can't get more central than that.

You mean these seven?

"I believe in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, in the Day of Judgment, and that Fate good and bad is given by Allah, and the life after death"

[Admiral Yi]

No

[Razgovory]

That is nonsense.  It is certainly no more central to Islam than to Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

Christianity has one golden rule.  Islam has seven pillars of faith.  Can't get more central than that.

Christianity does not have one "Golden rule".

[frunk]

That is nonsense.  It is certainly no more central to Islam than to Christianity, which has a long history of conquest and forced conversion.

Christianity has one golden rule.  Islam has seven pillars of faith.  Can't get more central than that.

The golden rule isn't originated by Christianity, and Islam even has its own formulation of it.

[The Minsky Moment]

Yes, and for most the the past 20 years it has been. Aceh, East Timor, Borneo, Irian Jaya etc.

I assume you are joking.  These were regional separatist movements, not Islamic jihadists.

10 years Jemaah Islamiah was not only bombing places where tourists spent their money it was murdering christians by burning their churches with people inside.

That is with the huge and amazing islamic civic organizations it has, unique in the islamic world, which primarily run schools which teach teh three "R"s and run mosques of the least radical type.

Exactly.  JI is a tiny organization with a few thousand adherents in a country of over 200 million people.  It is a drop in an ocean dominated by moderate, mainstream religious foundations.  Pointing to JI as illustrative is like making Fred Phelps or Anders Behring-Breivik exemplars of Christianity or Baruch Goldstein and exemplar of Judaism.