Berkely students petition to stop Bill Maher from delivering commencement addres

Started by Josephus, October 27, 2014, 06:06:45 PM

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derspiess

#60
October 28, 2014, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 28, 2014, 08:53:12 AM
Jains are fruitcakes.

A good friend of mine is a Jain :angry:
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

The Minsky Moment

#61
October 28, 2014, 09:15:15 AM
I didn't see that Affleck show but I did see the one after (?) He brought up the point again.  Mary Matalin (off all people) had a good point in response but it got lost in Maher's ranting.  Whatever his point is, it isn't just a an aspect of a pox on all religions policy.  he specifically singles out Islam as uniquely bad and worse than other religions.

The panel was Matalin, Cornel West(!) and some white guy from the Daily Beast.  Didn't fit the Yi description.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Malthus

#62
October 28, 2014, 09:21:57 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2014, 09:15:15 AM
I didn't see that Affleck show but I did see the one after (?) He brought up the point again.  Mary Matalin (off all people) had a good point in response but it got lost in Maher's ranting.  Whatever his point is, it isn't just a an aspect of a pox on all religions policy.  he specifically singles out Islam as uniquely bad and worse than other religions.

The panel was Matalin, Cornel West(!) and some white guy from the Daily Beast.  Didn't fit the Yi description.

He clearly fails to realize that Unitarianism is the uniquely worst religion.  :mad:
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Razgovory

#63
October 28, 2014, 09:43:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on October 28, 2014, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 28, 2014, 08:53:12 AM
Jains are fruitcakes.

A good friend of mine is a Jain :angry:

My sister is a Jane.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Martinus

#64
October 28, 2014, 09:44:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2014, 09:15:15 AM
I didn't see that Affleck show but I did see the one after (?) He brought up the point again.  Mary Matalin (off all people) had a good point in response but it got lost in Maher's ranting.  Whatever his point is, it isn't just a an aspect of a pox on all religions policy.  he specifically singles out Islam as uniquely bad and worse than other religions.

The panel was Matalin, Cornel West(!) and some white guy from the Daily Beast.  Didn't fit the Yi description.

But I think it is pretty much proven empirically that while all religions are shit, Islam is worse than others.

Razgovory

#65
October 28, 2014, 09:51:15 AM
I don't think you understand what the word "Empirical" means.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

#66
October 28, 2014, 09:59:23 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2014, 09:15:15 AM
The panel was Matalin, Cornel West(!) and some white guy from the Daily Beast.  Didn't fit the Yi description.

It never does.  Maher often has people from all over the spectrum.
But relying on Yi's commentary about television is like relying on Martinus' commentary about anal sex:  it's not really his thing.

Eddie Teach

#67
October 28, 2014, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 09:59:23 AM
It never does.  Maher often has people from all over the spectrum.
But relying on Yi's commentary about television is like relying on Martinus' commentary about anal sex:  it's not really his thing.

Back in the day, it was frequently 3 lefty actors and 1 conservative pundit or politician.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Viking

#69
October 28, 2014, 10:21:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 28, 2014, 09:44:01 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 28, 2014, 09:15:15 AM
I didn't see that Affleck show but I did see the one after (?) He brought up the point again.  Mary Matalin (off all people) had a good point in response but it got lost in Maher's ranting.  Whatever his point is, it isn't just a an aspect of a pox on all religions policy.  he specifically singles out Islam as uniquely bad and worse than other religions.

The panel was Matalin, Cornel West(!) and some white guy from the Daily Beast.  Didn't fit the Yi description.

But I think it is pretty much proven empirically that while all religions are shit, Islam is worse than others.

Raz has a point there. Empricial is one of those words that actually means something. Define the meaning of "worse" and somehow quantify it and you can start getting empirical.

You could for example use hte

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

and compare the regions with lots of Islamic influence (south asia, middle east and sub saharan africa) with the rest of the world and by compare I mean compare the ratings on the HDI.



the green (arabs) blue (south asia) and pink (subsaharan africa) lines here.
First Maxim - "There are only two amounts, too few and enough."
First Corollary - "You cannot have too many soldiers, only too few supplies."
Second Maxim - "Be willing to exchange a bad idea for a good one."
Second Corollary - "You can only be wrong or agree with me."

A terrorist which starts a slaughter quoting Locke, Burke and Mill has completely missed the point.
The fact remains that the only person or group to applaud the Norway massacre are random Islamists.

Razgovory

#70
October 28, 2014, 11:07:37 AM
Odd that you classify sub-Sahran Africa as having a lot of Islamic influence but not Europe.  I'm not clear what you wish to show here.  That the Arab states are improving at a faster rate then Europe does and at the same speed as East Asia?  That doesn't seem to be reinforce arguments that the Islam is uniquely bad.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Brain

#71
October 28, 2014, 11:15:07 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 27, 2014, 10:03:17 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 27, 2014, 10:00:09 PM
Maher's politics and personal hatreds aren't the reason he's a lousy comic, it's that being a smug, condescending son of bitch isn't particularly funny.  Turning on his show is like having Grumbler come over to your house and insult your cooking for an hour.

Raz: I made Lasagna...
Grumbles: WHOOSH

:D
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Eddie Teach

#72
October 28, 2014, 11:16:09 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 28, 2014, 11:07:37 AM
That doesn't seem to be reinforce arguments that the Islam is uniquely bad.

Good religions are all alike, bad religions are all bad in their own unique way.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Berkut

#73
October 28, 2014, 11:25:48 AM
The problem with Maher is that he makes the same mistake he accuses the fundies of - takes something that is basically defensible, then takes it to an extreme, which weakens that basic point he was trying to make in the first place.

All religions are not the same - to say they are is specious.

Since from the stance of the non religious, there is no particular objective truth to any of them, then religiion, by its definition, is whatever it's adherents say it is - and since people can (and do) say almost anything, then clearly there is very real differences in a practical sense between religions.

A religion that holds as its core principle that humans should never ever harm other humans is clearly very different than one that holds as its core principle that all humans should be killed, for example. Neither might be objectively true, but one is clearly more problematic than the other.

Now, whether or not Islam is more problematic than other religions...well, it seems kind of self-evident that it is in fact more prone to violence, at least at first glance. But of course there is a lot of wiggle room in there - how much of the violence is due to the differing message of the religion (compared to the other two major religions) and how much is due to the radically different social and cultural structures behind those who follow it? How do you even separate them?

Is there so much Islamic violence because Islam is a violent religion, or is there so much Islamic violence because Islam is the religion that happens to be followed by parts of the world that are completely fucked up?
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."

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The Brain

#74
October 28, 2014, 11:29:22 AM
Other: :Joos
Women want me. Men want to be with me.
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