Scottish Independence: Quebec Edition

[Valmy]

One day I want to set up that Malthus-Grallon Languish meet up so they can finally have the fist fight they have been warming up to all these years.

[Razgovory]

Malthus doesn't strike me as the violent type.  I would be honored to take his place.

[Gups]

Anyway.

THe most recent polls have shown a bit of movement away from "yes", with the noes pleading by 5-6 points according to the last two.

Salmon is going apeshit about the alleged leaking by the Treasury to the BBC of information that he Royal Bank of Scotland planned partial relocation in the event of a yes vote. Since the announcement was made a few hours later in any event, this seems poor tactics, drawing attention to a story that doesn't help him.

Having rather hoped for a yes vote a few months ago, the prospect of several years of negotiation and economic and political uncertainty has made me realise that it woudl be a disaster. If we are ever to go through this again following a "no", it really must be after the basic terms have been agreed.

[Admiral Yi]

I think you wanted the other Scottish Independence thread Guppy. 

[grumbler]

it seems you have distorted view of Canadian politics shaped by your opinion of the people talking about it rather than objective facts.

The irony is strong in this one.

  Yep.  That's one of the most LOL-worthy statements here in a long time (may even beat my evaluation of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Michigan and Notre Dame football teams!).  This is the guy who told me I should read the book that shaped most of my views on British colonial attitudes in the 1750s and '60s, thinking, because he had heard talking about the book, that it supported, rather than fatally undermined, his own position.

His erroneous (though strongly stated as "facts") views on the pre-Contact Indian populations of North America also come to mind. 

[grumbler]

Canadian politics is rather like a poor quality port or sherry, it doesn't travel at all well. 

I normally care about Canadian politics, but right now in this thread it's pretty damn tedious.

Yes it is rather killing off us Britisher's interest in the thread. Pity as the content could possibly turn out to be a Languish 'historic document' if we get a dramatic result.

I think the best part of the thread is the Brits moaning about the fact that they are losing interest in the thread (but are sufficiently egotistical that they think others really care if they don't care).

I'd say that was a "Languish 'historic document'"-worthy sentiment except that it is absolutely the bog-standard Mongers approach to any topic, so not very historically significant at all. 

[grumbler]

Is having a gun a right in your country?  Most poeple not from the US find it pretty silly that anyone is entitled to owning a gun.
How did it came to be a fundamental right of your country to eat a burger with your rifle?  Did it just "kind of happens"
...

Surely you cannot be so ignorant of US history as to fail to understand the importance of the concept of the militia to its founders.  I could enlighten you, but if you don't get it by now (or have forgotten it so easily), any enlightenment would be ignored or forgotten, so I shan't bother.

[viper37]

Is having a gun a right in your country?  Most poeple not from the US find it pretty silly that anyone is entitled to owning a gun.
How did it came to be a fundamental right of your country to eat a burger with your rifle?  Did it just "kind of happens"
...

Well it made perfect sense when 99% of the population was rural and the plan was for the military to consist entirely of citizen militias armed with their own weapons.  That and the thing the British did that finally started the war was trying to seize people's guns.

Having said that in the 80s the majority of the population was for gun control.  The whole 'I should be able to carry an automatic rifle to shop at Target' thing is new.

The point is, it is enshrined in your Constitution.  From there, it can lead to abuses, of course, but it's seen as a basic right in the US, and it has been confirmed by the US Supreme court.

It's not something the NRA decided.  But they sure will push for the extension of that right everywhere.

[viper37]

it seems you have distorted view of Canadian politics shaped by your opinion of the people talking about it rather than objective facts.

The irony is strong in this one.

  Yep.  That's one of the most LOL-worthy statements here in a long time (may even beat my evaluation of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Michigan and Notre Dame football teams!).  This is the guy who told me I should read the book that shaped most of my views on British colonial attitudes in the 1750s and '60s, thinking, because he had heard talking about the book, that it supported, rather than fatally undermined, his own position.

His erroneous (though strongly stated as "facts") views on the pre-Contact Indian populations of North America also come to mind. 

you should re-read the book then.  And btw,read again on how european contact changed indian warfare in North America.

[viper37]

Is having a gun a right in your country?  Most poeple not from the US find it pretty silly that anyone is entitled to owning a gun.
How did it came to be a fundamental right of your country to eat a burger with your rifle?  Did it just "kind of happens"
...

Surely you cannot be so ignorant of US history as to fail to understand the importance of the concept of the militia to its founders.  I could enlighten you, but if you don't get it by now (or have forgotten it so easily), any enlightenment would be ignored or forgotten, so I shan't bother.

try to read the thread Grumbler.  See what I was answering to, so that you can understand the conversation.  It's not that hard, but it's harder than simply posting contrary opinions for the sake of posting contrary opinions.

[garbon]

Alright, I shovelled out most of the pointless Quebec wankery into its own thread. Let's try not to shit this thread up again?

Holy crap - your "Quebec edition" thread has even more posts than this original thread. 

Well, of course, that's how the hijack happened. There were not, and so far continue not to be, many people interested in discussing the Scottish situation. Likely do to less familiarity/ no one seems to be championing the Scottish independence cause.

[Lettow77]

I suppose I could champion the Scottish independence cause..

[grumbler]

you should re-read the book then.  And btw,read again on how european contact changed indian warfare in North America.

Perhaps it is you who should re-read it.  I have read it, and explained in this very thread what the author's thesis is.  You simply assert, without evidence, that the author agrees with you that nationalism was the cause of the American War of Independence.  The change to Indian warfare isn't relevant to any arguments I have made or any from you that I have read.

Do try to keep your story at least somewhat coherent.

[grumbler]

Is having a gun a right in your country?  Most poeple not from the US find it pretty silly that anyone is entitled to owning a gun.
How did it came to be a fundamental right of your country to eat a burger with your rifle?  Did it just "kind of happens"
...

Surely you cannot be so ignorant of US history as to fail to understand the importance of the concept of the militia to its founders.  I could enlighten you, but if you don't get it by now (or have forgotten it so easily), any enlightenment would be ignored or forgotten, so I shan't bother.

try to read the thread Grumbler.  See what I was answering to, so that you can understand the conversation.  It's not that hard, but it's harder than simply posting contrary opinions for the sake of posting contrary opinions.

Do try to keep your argument coherent, vIper.  "How did it came to be a fundamental right of your country to eat a burger with your rifle? Did it just "kind of happens"" isn't an answer to anything.  It is bullshit rhetoric, which could only be indulged in by someone ignorant 9or willfully ignorant) of US history.  It's not that hard to be logical in arguments, but it's harder than simply posting bullshit rhetoric for the sake of posting bullshit rhetoric.

[Grallon]

One day I want to set up that Malthus-Grallon Languish meet up so they can finally have the fist fight they have been warming up to all these years.

Not at all, I've grown to like Viper - even though he is a coward when it comes to independence - like too many French-Canadians.

Which brings me to my next point:

Anyone who isn't a complete faithless hypocrite will see the parallels between these 2 cases and acknowledge that one can inform the other - for better or worse.  There are many similarities as well as many differences - but being told that what happened in Quebec is completely irrelevant - and nothing more than 'wankery' really illustrates what I was writing yesterday.

But one cannot expect anything better from Canadians of course.



G.