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Scottish Independence

Started by Sheilbh, September 05, 2014, 04:20:20 PM

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How will Scotland vote on independence?

Yes (I'd also vote yes)
16 (24.2%)
Yes (I'd vote no)
8 (12.1%)
No (I'd vote yes)
4 (6.1%)
No (I'd also vote no)
38 (57.6%)

Total Members Voted: 64

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Sheilbh on September 10, 2014, 04:14:06 PM
North-South divide is mostly economic and a century ago was the other way round. That's it.

Economics, speech, drinking habits; Squeeze made the claim that Chavistan is closer culturally to lowland Scotland than to Greater London.

QuoteThere's other differences but it's not another country :mellow:

Just like Scotland, they've been a different country in the past.

All they're missing is kilts, a language no one speaks, and North Sea oil.

Valmy

Quote from: viper37 on September 10, 2014, 12:13:29 PM
Funny, I don't see things your way.  What I saw were a few Americans and a Hungarian saying the Scots were morons subject to propaganda by the YES side and unable to see for themselves what was good for them, for that, they needed American enlightment, wich holds that patriotism is totally different than nationalism, being a positive force, while nationalism is the root of all evil. According to Valmy, Nationalists are worst than nazis.

LOL all I said was that ethnically based states are a bad idea.  And somehow that means all nationalists are Nazis or something.  Oh wait worse than Nazis...which is impossible since Nazis were nationalists so does that mean the Nazis were the best nationalists?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

mongers

Well England and possibly the rest of the UK, is now waking the fact the death-knell could be struck for the country they all live in, in 8 days time.  Kind of odd feeling.  <_<
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Valmy

#228
Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2014, 05:42:48 PM
Well England and possibly the rest of the UK, is now waking the fact the death-knell could be struck for the country they all live in, in 8 days time.  Kind of odd feeling.  <_<

It will be close.  Maybe a late charge could still save the union.  Now is the time to federalize Britain.  All power to the shires!

Obligatory:

Quote
Bernard: Although there are many... convincing, some might say conclusive, arguments against it.

Humphrey: Some might indeed, Bernard.

Bernard: Yes. Why?

Humphrey: Because once you create genuinely democratic local communities, it won't stop there.

Bernard: Won't it?

Humphrey: Well, of course it won't. You see, once they get established, they'll insist on more power.  Politicians will be too frightened to withhold them, so you'll get regional government.

Bernard: Would that matter?

Humphrey: Bernard, come and sit down.  What happens at the moment if there is some vacant land in, say, Nottingham and there are rival proposals for its use: hospital, college, airport?

Bernard: We set up an inter-departmental committee: Health, Education, Transport, Environment.  Ask for papers, hold meetings, propose, discuss, revise, report back, re-draft.

Humphrey: Precisely.  Months of fruitful work.  Leading to a mature and responsible conclusion.  But if you have regional government, they decide it all in Nottingham!  Probably in a couple of meetings!  Complete amateurs!

Bernard: It is their city.

Humphrey: And what happens to us?

Bernard: Well, much less work.

Humphrey: Yes, much less work!  So little that ministers might be able to do it on their own, so we'd have much less power!

Bernard: I don't know if I want power.

Humphrey: If the right people don't have power, know what happens?  The wrong people get it!  Politicians, councilors, ordinary voters!

Bernard: But aren't they supposed to in a democracy?

Humphrey: This is a British democracy, Bernard!

Bernard: How do you mean?

Humphrey: British democracy recognises that you need a system to protect the important things of life and keep them out of the hands of the barbarians!  Things like the opera...Radio 3...the countryside... the law...the universities...both of them.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Zoupa

Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2014, 10:51:21 AM
I did like them explaining how Scotland should not be suckered by the British government like they were by Canada's...because the situations are perfectly analogous for some reason.

You'll see.

garbon

Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2014, 05:42:48 PM
Well England and possibly the rest of the UK, is now waking the fact the death-knell could be struck for the country they all live in, in 8 days time.  Kind of odd feeling.  <_<

Would Scotland lead an armed revolt if the UK refused to honor the results of the referendum?
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

#231
Quote from: Zoupa on September 10, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2014, 10:51:21 AM
I did like them explaining how Scotland should not be suckered by the British government like they were by Canada's...because the situations are perfectly analogous for some reason.

You'll see.

I suppose you would support independence for Corsicans and Languedoc as well  :mad:.  La France est une république indivisible!

Anyway I sure hope I see.  That would mean No wins.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Jacob

Quote from: Zoupa on September 10, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2014, 10:51:21 AM
I did like them explaining how Scotland should not be suckered by the British government like they were by Canada's...because the situations are perfectly analogous for some reason.

You'll see.

Hey Zoupa! :cheers:

mongers

Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2014, 06:37:09 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2014, 05:42:48 PM
Well England and possibly the rest of the UK, is now waking the fact the death-knell could be struck for the country they all live in, in 8 days time.  Kind of odd feeling.  <_<

Would Scotland lead an armed revolt if the UK refused to honor the results of the referendum?

I can't imagine a situation where the Cabinet wouldn't honour the referendum result, parliament may behave differently, but I think the legality and the backing for the independence vote is unchallengeable.

This is after all, at heart, a divorce; you can't force one partner to stay in the marriage if they longer wish it.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Valmy

Even if they only 50.00000001% want it?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2014, 07:34:51 PM
This is after all, at heart, a divorce; you can't force one partner to stay in the marriage if they longer wish it.

I think you can. We did it. :D
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

mongers

Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2014, 07:36:31 PM
Even if they only 50.00000001% want it?

.0003 of a person difference?  :hmm:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Valmy

Quote from: mongers on September 10, 2014, 07:42:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 10, 2014, 07:36:31 PM
Even if they only 50.00000001% want it?

.0003 of a person difference?  :hmm:

She was only 99.9997% sure she wanted to vote no.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

garbon

Quote from: viper37 on September 10, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2014, 10:18:36 PM
I mean was Valmy or any American decrying nationalism as an evil? (Though clearly it can be when taken to extremes) I only recall raising an eyebrow that nationalism was a cause of the American Revolution.
See past threads.  We've been discussing that for 14 years, at least.

Languish has only been around for about 11 though. :hmm:

Also, that's a rather vague show of evidence.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Valmy

Quote from: viper37 on September 10, 2014, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 10, 2014, 10:18:36 PM
I mean was Valmy or any American decrying nationalism as an evil? (Though clearly it can be when taken to extremes) I only recall raising an eyebrow that nationalism was a cause of the American Revolution.
See past threads.  We've been discussing that for 14 years, at least.

Oh well I guess I need to arguing against some vague summary of 14 years then instead of something concrete. 
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."