Russo-Ukrainian War 2014-25

[Tamas]

I'm really curious to what extent Snowden has played into all of these events.  The leaks, particularly those around Germany, seemed designed to split the western allies as much as possible.  It seems like Putin is pushing things much faster than would seem wise, particularly as far as raising the attention of the west, while the split is still fresh.

I had much sympathy for that guy initially, but now I despise him. He is either a Russian agent, or a narcissistic fool. In both cases he is a traitor to his country.

[The Brain]

Putin has been diagnosed with Parkinson's and accelerates his world conquest project.

[frunk]

I had much sympathy for that guy initially, but now I despise him. He is either a Russian agent, or a narcissistic fool. In both cases he is a traitor to his country.

I had no sympathy for him once he left US soil.

[Tamas]

Putin has been diagnosed with Parkinson's and accelerates his world conquest project.

You know what, I was thinking that maybe his obsession with botoxing the hell out of his face stems from the fact that he worries signs of some illness might show.

[The Brain]

Are you sure it's AIDS?

[Malthus]

I'm really curious to what extent Snowden has played into all of these events.  The leaks, particularly those around Germany, seemed designed to split the western allies as much as possible.  It seems like Putin is pushing things much faster than would seem wise, particularly as far as raising the attention of the west, while the split is still fresh.

Sometimes I think Putin is NATO's rcruiting seargent. If it wasn't for Putin, it seems likely that Nato would have dried up and blown away amidst squabbling and seeming pointlessness. Now, it's the hottest club in the world to join ... and every member is under pressure to increase defence spending.

Putin may well swallow bits of the Ukraine, but the cost has been a much-revitalized alliance that far outspends and outpowers him, and is totally dedicated to containing his ambitions.

[frunk]

Sometimes I think Putin is NATO's rcruiting seargent. If it wasn't for Putin, it seems likely that Nato would have dried up and blown away amidst squabbling and seeming pointlessness. Now, it's the hottest club in the world to join ... and every member is under pressure to increase defence spending.

Putin may well swallow bits of the Ukraine, but the cost has been a much-revitalized alliance that far outspends and outpowers him, and is totally dedicated to containing his ambitions.

I'm assuming that either he's going to push this as far as it can go, or that he can lay low for a few years and then try to pull the same thing again.  After all that worked with Georgia.

[Warspite]

I'm really curious to what extent Snowden has played into all of these events.  The leaks, particularly those around Germany, seemed designed to split the western allies as much as possible.  It seems like Putin is pushing things much faster than would seem wise, particularly as far as raising the attention of the west, while the split is still fresh.

Sometimes I think Putin is NATO's rcruiting seargent. If it wasn't for Putin, it seems likely that Nato would have dried up and blown away amidst squabbling and seeming pointlessness. Now, it's the hottest club in the world to join ... and every member is under pressure to increase defence spending.

Putin may well swallow bits of the Ukraine, but the cost has been a much-revitalized alliance that far outspends and outpowers him, and is totally dedicated to containing his ambitions.

Alternatively, Putin is the final nail in the coffin if NATO only shows in relief the deep foreign policy divisions between its member states.

A lot depends on the Summit tomorrow.

[Tamas]

Sometimes I think Putin is NATO's rcruiting seargent. If it wasn't for Putin, it seems likely that Nato would have dried up and blown away amidst squabbling and seeming pointlessness. Now, it's the hottest club in the world to join ... and every member is under pressure to increase defence spending.

Putin may well swallow bits of the Ukraine, but the cost has been a much-revitalized alliance that far outspends and outpowers him, and is totally dedicated to containing his ambitions.

I'm assuming that either he's going to push this as far as it can go, or that he can lay low for a few years and then try to pull the same thing again.  After all that worked with Georgia.

Georgia is a good point: what we are seeing now is Act 2, not Act 1. This shit WILL be pulled again unless it is made a very bad decision here and now.

[Malthus]

Sometimes I think Putin is NATO's rcruiting seargent. If it wasn't for Putin, it seems likely that Nato would have dried up and blown away amidst squabbling and seeming pointlessness. Now, it's the hottest club in the world to join ... and every member is under pressure to increase defence spending.

Putin may well swallow bits of the Ukraine, but the cost has been a much-revitalized alliance that far outspends and outpowers him, and is totally dedicated to containing his ambitions.

I'm assuming that either he's going to push this as far as it can go, or that he can lay low for a few years and then try to pull the same thing again.  After all that worked with Georgia.

Georgia went, for the most part, under the public radar. Ukraine has been playing itself out very much under the spotlight.

[derspiess]

Merkel is citing the NATO-Russia Founding Act in opposing placing NATO troops in Eastern Europe:

http://www.dw.de/no-permanent-nato-troop-presence-in-eastern-europe-merkel-says/a-17897288


Problem is, Russia seems to have already violated that agreement.

[Malthus]

I'm really curious to what extent Snowden has played into all of these events.  The leaks, particularly those around Germany, seemed designed to split the western allies as much as possible.  It seems like Putin is pushing things much faster than would seem wise, particularly as far as raising the attention of the west, while the split is still fresh.

Sometimes I think Putin is NATO's rcruiting seargent. If it wasn't for Putin, it seems likely that Nato would have dried up and blown away amidst squabbling and seeming pointlessness. Now, it's the hottest club in the world to join ... and every member is under pressure to increase defence spending.

Putin may well swallow bits of the Ukraine, but the cost has been a much-revitalized alliance that far outspends and outpowers him, and is totally dedicated to containing his ambitions.

Alternatively, Putin is the final nail in the coffin if NATO only shows in relief the deep foreign policy divisions between its member states.

A lot depends on the Summit tomorrow.

The members have a lot of divisions, but are united as one in not trusting Putin.

[Warspite]

Really? Georgia was huge news over here.

What is big however is that France has just suspended delivery of the first Mistral.

[garbon]

Really? Georgia was huge news over here.

We even had people worried that Russia was invading the US.

[Tamas]

Merkel is citing the NATO-Russia Founding Act in opposing placing NATO troops in Eastern Europe:

http://www.dw.de/no-permanent-nato-troop-presence-in-eastern-europe-merkel-says/a-17897288


Problem is, Russia seems to have already violated that agreement.