Staind singer stops concert to demand audience members stop ‘molesting’ teen

[Malthus]

Anyone who tries to pretend sympathy with another to somehow fool them into sex deserves to be.

I did not get that from the article. The "white knight trying to get laid" charge seems more of a cheap ad hominem to me, in this case and more generally.

I don't get that from the article, either. Just a general comment on the post. I don't really think folks holding such views as those in the article, while I disagree with them, truly do so to pretend sympathy to get laid. But in general, those who pretend sympathy to get laid deserve not to be.

[Ideologue]

If someone didn't want to fuck you last year, odds are you're just older and fatter now, and they still don't want to fuck you unless something has changed to make them feel less valuable (or perceive you as more valuable).  Can happen, isn't typical.

If you've been friends with someone for the last year, odds are you've become embedded in each other's social circle (I hear tell, I haven't had a friend I haven't been sleeping with since right out of law school).  This places a potential high cost on the failure of a sexual relationship, and most sexual relationships, for whatever reason, it places a higher psychological barrier on engaging in any romance with them.

This is maybe not universally true, but I feel it's a good framework for understanding why the girl (or boy) you've had a crush on for half a decade doesn't want to have sex with you--either they never wanted to in the first place, or it's not worth trying now.

[Razgovory]

Anyone who tries to pretend sympathy with another to somehow fool them into sex deserves to be.

I did not get that from the article. The "white knight trying to get laid" charge seems more of a cheap ad hominem to me, in this case and more generally.

I don't get that from the article, either. Just a general comment on the post. I don't really think folks holding such views as those in the article, while I disagree with them, truly do so to pretend sympathy to get laid. But in general, those who pretend sympathy to get laid deserve not to be.

Like when you pretended to be a Trotskiest to impress some dingbat?

[Valmy]

Anyone who tries to pretend sympathy with another to somehow fool them into sex deserves to be.

Yep.  The only appropriate way to get sex is to be straightforward.  If you find yourself being sneaky, it means you probably know what the answer will be.

Damn I should tell my kids that someday *takes notes*

[derspiess]

Friend zone is a misogynist term now. 

I think this is a result of misogynists having used the term prolifically to expound on and justify their world views. Tainted by association, basically.

It seems inoffensive enough to me.  Has the term been overused by whiny dudes who can't get laid or something?

[Ideologue]

Friend zone is a misogynist term now. 

I think this is a result of misogynists having used the term prolifically to expound on and justify their world views. Tainted by association, basically.

I think that's true.  It certainly wasn't intentionally coined as such, though I've seen it argued that it's a manifestation of entitlement to sex.  I would counter, if I felt like being flamed by 10,000 left-wing maniacs (who don't even believe in collectivization, so what good are they?), that women (and men) aren't entitled to friendship either, and being approached solely because you have something the other wants isn't denying your humanity, it's simply the dominant mode of social interaction and reflects our nature as self-interested individuals.

[Maximus]

Friend zone is a misogynist term now. 

I think this is a result of misogynists having used the term prolifically to expound on and justify their world views. Tainted by association, basically.

It seems inoffensive enough to me.  Has the term been overused by whiny dudes who can't get laid or something?

That's my impression. Ladder theory, Seduction community etc

[Malthus]

If someone didn't want to fuck you last year, odds are you're just older and fatter now, and they still don't want to fuck you unless something has changed to make them feel less valuable (or perceive you as more valuable).  Can happen, isn't typical.

If you've been friends with someone for the last year, odds are you've become embedded in each other's social circle (I hear tell, I haven't had a friend I haven't been sleeping with since right out of law school).  This places a potential high cost on the failure of a sexual relationship, and most sexual relationships, for whatever reason, it places a higher psychological barrier on engaging in any romance with them.

This is maybe not universally true, but I feel it's a good framework for understanding why the girl (or boy) you've had a crush on for half a decade doesn't want to have sex with you--either they never wanted to in the first place, or it's not worth trying now.

Short form - you can't substitute sympathy for sexy (and attempting to do so usually means the sympathy was fake in the first place).

[Valmy]

Ah the old White Knight thingy.  Well he is going to be disappointed, all PIV sex is rape.

What about PIM or PIA?

Think the Feminist covered that:

(or anything else replacing and symbolising the female orifice)

[Admiral Yi]

What's the Ladder Theory?

[Valmy]

What's the Ladder Theory?

http://www.laddertheory.com/

[Malthus]

What's the Ladder Theory?

http://www.laddertheory.com/

It is complete bullshit. Recognizing that a woman is attractive and that, under other circumstances, you would be glad to have sex with her doesn't doom a friendship, and I should know - my best friend is a woman, I find her attractive, and we have been friends for my entire adult life - now 29 years.

[Ideologue]

Mal: I think that's a little different, but if by "sympathy" you mean, as said above, "feigning friendship," I largely agree--although I think it's irresponsibly reductivist to assume any particular person is "feigning" friendship to try to generate romantic interest.  The feeling of friendship is probably genuine, although not necessarily healthy.

If the friendship ends over the attempt, I'm not sure you can say in retrospect it wasn't genuine, either.  I reckon that a lot of people underestimate how crushing it is to be told by the object of your romantic affections that they like you but not that way--it can be taken to mean, and often it does in fact mean, that you're in some way absolutely deficient.  I've seen this with the genders swapped, and it is really universal and it is shattering.  It's easier in many ways just to be disliked--you can simply dislike them back--than it is to be liked and judged inadequate.  And trying to maintain a friendship in the face of that is being reminded that you suck.  It can be unpleasant, though it can be overcome, usually via external sources of support and romantic/sexual satisfaction.

[Jacob]

It seems inoffensive enough to me.  Has the term been overused by whiny dudes who can't get laid or something?

Yup, that's basically my understanding.

[Malthus]

Mal: I think that's a little different, but if by "sympathy" you mean, as said above, "feigning friendship," I largely agree--although I think it's irresponsibly reductivist to assume any particular person is "feigning" friendship to try to generate romantic interest.  The feeling of friendship is probably genuine, although not necessarily healthy.  I reckon that a lot of people underestimate how crushing it is to be told by the object of your romantic affections that they like you but not that way--it can be taken to mean, and often it does in fact mean, that you're in some way absolutely deficient.  I've seen this with the genders swapped, and it is really universal and it is shattering.  It's easier in many ways just to be disliked--you can simply dislike them back--than it is to be liked and judged inadequate.

Not sure what the shatterimg feeling of being judged unsexy has to do with it. I suspect some guys hang around women hoping that, if they display enough friendly qualities, the woman will eventually have sex with them.