Your Preferred Solution to the Crimean Crisis?

Started by Queequeg, March 11, 2014, 01:13:56 PM

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How would you have responded as POTUS or similarly powerful European leader to the Russian invasion of Crimea?

Вставайте, люди русские!  Peremysl and Belostok are Russian cities!
0 (0%)
Let the Russians take Ukraine.  Not our problem.
1 (1.7%)
International process designed to divvy-up Ukraine between a pro-EU West and a Russian east.
9 (15.3%)
Attempt to diffuse expanded conflict, limit involvement in Ukraine in future
2 (3.4%)
Serious sanctions on Russian business interests and oligarchs, stepped-up aid and military relations with Ukraine without full NATO or EU membership.
15 (25.4%)
After Russian annexation of Crimea begin speedy process integration of Ukraine in to NATO and possibly EU
7 (11.9%)
Give all possible immediate aid to Ukraine in an attempt defend the country, make immediately clear that any push past Crimea or in to Donbass will mean war.
13 (22%)
Full Dr. Strangelove; immediate mobilization of NATO forces in attempt to retake Crimea militarily
8 (13.6%)
Other (please specify)
3 (5.1%)
Jaron's Neo Byzantine Empire will soon retake Crimea!
1 (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Queequeg

Inspired by OvB being puzzled by my response.  Going for #5.
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Ideologue

Kinemalogue
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Admiral Yi

Internationally administered referendum *after* Russian troops have left.

If they hold a referendum on their own, refuse to recognize, expel Russia from the G8 (or disband the G8 and return to the G7), initiate talks about expelling Russia from the Security Council, any other measures short of war that are reasonable.

crazy canuck

Other, I didnt see an option for full support for Ukraine and sanctions against Russia.

DGuller

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 11, 2014, 01:19:32 PM
Internationally administered referendum *after* Russian troops have left.

If they hold a referendum on their own, refuse to recognize, expel Russia from the G8 (or disband the G8 and return to the G7), initiate talks about expelling Russia from the Security Council, any other measures short of war that are reasonable.
Is there any legitimate way to expel Russia from the Security Council, other than creating "No Russia Club" and transferring all the UN functions to it?

Caliga

0 Ed Anger Disapproval Points

Admiral Yi

Quote from: DGuller on March 11, 2014, 01:22:42 PM
Is there any legitimate way to expel Russia from the Security Council, other than creating "No Russia Club" and transferring all the UN functions to it?

Dunno.  But it is a fun idea.

Valmy

Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

Ukraine to have free, fair and democratic elections so establish a fully legitimate government.  If he wants, Yuschenko can run again.  Any decision to proceed with charges left to new government.  Russian troops to stand down and return to base in Crimea, and Ukrainian troops to be unmolested.  Ukrainian membership in NATO to be off the table for 25 years, together with the new government re-confirming the Sevastopol lease.  New government to decide the countries economic fate vis-a-vis EU and Russia as it sees fit.

Referendum on status of Crimea to be scheduled for 2015 to be supervised by international community.  Joining Russia, status quo, and renegotiating status within Ukraine to all be options.

That, of course, assumes Russian willingness to negotiate.

Otherwise...

Russia invading and incorporating the sovereign territory of another nation (especially in light of explicit guarantees to the contrary) can not be business as usual.  Quietly threaten to reform G7 if Russian troops haven't stood down.  Outline a series of consequences which will follow, aimed at economic consequences that will be felt by the oligarchs (will require Europe to grow a backbone).  Decrease military co-operation with Russia.  Support democratic process in Ukraine together with short term aid, to be followed by longer-term economic integration into Europe and NATO membership.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Beenherebefore

Honestly, I just want Russia to suffer. In some way or the other.
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Savonarola

US and EU supports Russia's annexation of Crimea in exchange for Russian and EU support of the United States annexation of Cuba and the United States and Russia supporting the restoration of the Hapsburg monarchy in Mexico.  Then partition the Ukraine into two protectorates, the east in the Russian sphere of influence and the west in the European.  Everybody wins.   :bowler:
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Maximus

Quote from: Barrister on March 11, 2014, 01:33:24 PM
Ukraine to have free, fair and democratic elections so establish a fully legitimate government.  If he wants, Yuschenko can run again.  Any decision to proceed with charges left to new government.  Russian troops to stand down and return to base in Crimea, and Ukrainian troops to be unmolested.  Ukrainian membership in NATO to be off the table for 25 years, together with the new government re-confirming the Sevastopol lease.  New government to decide the countries economic fate vis-a-vis EU and Russia as it sees fit.

Referendum on status of Crimea to be scheduled for 2015 to be supervised by international community.  Joining Russia, status quo, and renegotiating status within Ukraine to all be options.
Why on earth would Ukraine agree to a continuation of the Sevastopol base now that it has been used to launch an invasion?

crazy canuck

Quote from: Maximus on March 11, 2014, 01:44:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on March 11, 2014, 01:33:24 PM
Ukraine to have free, fair and democratic elections so establish a fully legitimate government.  If he wants, Yuschenko can run again.  Any decision to proceed with charges left to new government.  Russian troops to stand down and return to base in Crimea, and Ukrainian troops to be unmolested.  Ukrainian membership in NATO to be off the table for 25 years, together with the new government re-confirming the Sevastopol lease.  New government to decide the countries economic fate vis-a-vis EU and Russia as it sees fit.

Referendum on status of Crimea to be scheduled for 2015 to be supervised by international community.  Joining Russia, status quo, and renegotiating status within Ukraine to all be options.
Why on earth would Ukraine agree to a continuation of the Sevastopol base now that it has been used to launch an invasion?

Thats a good point.  But it seems to me that if Ukraine wishes to live by the Rule of Law they need to abide by the terms of the Lease agreement - unless there is some basis in law upon which the agreement may be overturned.  I dont know enough about the circumstances in which the lease was renewed to comment on whether that might be possible.

Maximus

Surely an invasion could be considered a breach of contract.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Maximus on March 11, 2014, 01:50:00 PM
Surely an invasion could be considered a breach of contract.

Probably, but Ukraine's strongest argument is to return things to the Status Quo before the invasion rather than seeking concessions.