Liberation Theology is in - should Yi be concerned?

[crazy canuck]

Nobody beats up on secularism because of the execution of lavoisier.

What a terrible analogy.

That's not an analogy.  Lavoiser was actually executed by a stridently secularist government.

I think the point Max was making is that his execution had nothing to do with him being a scientist and everything to do with being an aristocrat.

[Maximus]

Also that "secularism" is not an organization.

[Razgovory]

I'm not actually clear who the scientist was who was burned at the stake.  I assume it was Bruno, but he really wasn't a scientist though he is celebrated as one sometimes.

[crazy canuck]

Also that "secularism" is not an organization.

I think Raz was talking about the Government which ruled after the French revolution which he characterizes as secularist.

[Tamas]

Also that "secularism" is not an organization.

I think Raz was talking about the Government which ruled after the French revolution which he characterizes as secularist.

Cool, so Raz is a libertarian now!

[Razgovory]

   I think it's fair to characterize Revolutionary France as "secularist".

[Maximus]

  I think it's fair to characterize Revolutionary France as "secularist".

Yes, but secularism is not revolutionary France. Conflating the two is what makes it a terrible  analogy.

[Valmy]

  I think it's fair to characterize Revolutionary France as "secularist".

Yeah don't most secular states have an official church where the government pays all the priests?

[Razgovory]

  I think it's fair to characterize Revolutionary France as "secularist".

Yes, but secularism is not revolutionary France. Conflating the two is what makes it a terrible  analogy.

It is an ideology though, one endorsed by France and one they used coercion to enforce.

[Maximus]

It is an ideology though, one endorsed by France and one they used coercion to enforce.

Yea, so? The ideology didn't kill him. The organization did.

[Razgovory]

It is an ideology though, one endorsed by France and one they used coercion to enforce.

Yea, so? The ideology didn't kill him. The organization did.

And...?

[Maximus]

"Nobody beats up on secularism because of the execution of lavoisier." makes no sense since secularism didn't execute him.

Now if you had said that nobody beats up on Revolutionary France because of the execution of lavoisier, that would not have been as bad of an analogy. It just would have been incorrect.

[grumbler]

CC acknowledges that it is impossible for Catholics to see the hypocrisy of their position.  Doesn't that mitigate the crime to some extent, in your eyes?

A Strawman contest.   I love watching you do those.  You are off to a wonderful start. [/quote]

Not a strawman, but simply a mis-attribution:

There's no hypocrisy from a Catholic perspective in a fancy cathedral and charity or being a poor Church.

I wouldn't bother to enter a strawman contest, since we all know you are far more practiced in it than anyone else here.

[Razgovory]

"Nobody beats up on secularism because of the execution of lavoisier." makes no sense since secularism didn't execute him.

Now if you had said that nobody beats up on Revolutionary France because of the execution of lavoisier, that would not have been as bad of an analogy. It just would have been incorrect.

So tell me, what do you believe is the relationship between a government and the ideology that the government is devoted to?

[Valmy]

  I think it's fair to characterize Revolutionary France as "secularist".

Yes, but secularism is not revolutionary France. Conflating the two is what makes it a terrible  analogy.

It is an ideology though, one endorsed by France and one they used coercion to enforce.

How did France endorse it?  The effort failed pretty spectacularly, was extremely short-lived, and was un-Constitutional.  Something that was endorsed by the whole country should have had more staying power.  Associating Atheism with the French Revolution is a common error though, one which the Church went along with during the restoration and ironically actually DID lead to massive de-Christianization in the 19th century as being Christian came to be associated with being Monarchist.  Whoops.