[de Blasio] Living in a post-Bloomberg era

[Admiral Yi]

Engage the hyperbole drive!

[DGuller]

You don't think there is a problem with police force openly rebelling against the city government?

That hasn't happened.

From where I sit, the cops seem to do what PBA tells them to do, and not what their chain of command tells them to do.  That seems a lot like rebellion to me.

[Sheilbh]

You don't think there is a problem with police force openly rebelling against the city government?

They're not openly rebelling. They don't have to kowtow or sit in dutiful silence when someone says something they disagree with or someone they dislike is saying it.

I can think of numerous Home Secretaries who've been heckled or booed by the police federation here. My view is they're not the military, they don't owe politicians any more respect than any other public sector worker - so long as it doesn't interfere with their work (ie. it'd be inappropriate for any protection officers to be doing this). But the vice versa goes: like every other part of the public sector they probably need lots of reform.

What I'd like to see happen is that de Blasio doesn't get heckled because he's upset their feelings with comments he's made, but that he gets booed because he's a reforming politician taking on a vested interest that's clearly out of touch (captured by producer interests) and needs to be reformed.

[DGuller]

They're not openly rebelling. They don't have to kowtow or sit in dutiful silence when someone says something they disagree with or someone they dislike is saying it.

The thing is that de Blasio is not just someone.  He is the head of the government which they serve, and they're in uniform.  No, in such a situation, you don't have the right to be obnoxious.

I can think of numerous Home Secretaries who've been heckled or booed by the police federation here. My view is they're not the military, they don't owe politicians any more respect than any other public sector worker - so long as it doesn't interfere with their work (ie. it'd be inappropriate for any protection officers to be doing this). But the vice versa goes: like every other part of the public sector they probably need lots of reform.

Police may not be the military, but they're not that far off, especially in this day and age in US.  They're not just the run of the mill public servants, they're the only people with guns.  I think it should be alarming when the only people with guns want to dictate who they should answer to.

[Sheilbh]

The thing is that de Blasio is not just someone.  He is the head of the government which they serve, and they're in uniform.  No, in such a situation, you don't have the right to be obnoxious.

If they're worst they're doing is being obnoxious then you should probably reel back from their open revolt

But ust because they're public sector workers doesn't mean they lose their rights to opinions or to expressing them. Nurses, teachers, firemen, police are all welcome to boo and heckle as many politicians as they want just like anyone else unless they're, for example, guarding the Mayor or showing him round their classroom - then it would be very obnoxious.

Police may not be the military, but they're not that far off, especially in this day and age in US.  They're not just the run of the mill public servants, they're the only people with guns.  I think it should be alarming when the only people with guns want to dictate who they should answer to.

Yeah I don't like the trend of militarisation either. It probably won't help to tell them they've got to stand to attention when addressed by their CinC.

They're not trying to dictate anything. They're showing their disapproval of him (though I think it'll backfire for him) which I think is okay. He should show them the election results and get on with the business of giving them something to boo about.

[Razgovory]

I'm not bothered by the "increasing militarization of the police", and of all us I'm the one who best fits the profile of a crazed lone gunman, which is the demographic most inconvenienced by armored vehicles.

[dps]

They're not openly rebelling. They don't have to kowtow or sit in dutiful silence when someone says something they disagree with or someone they dislike is saying it.

The thing is that de Blasio is not just someone.  He is the head of the government which they serve, and they're in uniform.  No, in such a situation, you don't have the right to be obnoxious.

[/quote]

At least in theory, the cops don't serve the Mayor, or even the city government--they serve the people of NYC.

Police may not be the military, but they're not that far off, especially in this day and age in US.  They're not just the run of the mill public servants, they're the only people with guns.  I think it should be alarming when the only people with guns want to dictate who they should answer to.

In the US, even in New York City, the police are hardly the only people with guns.

[Admiral Yi]

He should show them the election results and get on with the business of giving them something to boo about.

I don't see what that proves.  He didn't run against the police department.

[Sheilbh]

I don't see what that proves.  He didn't run against the police department.

I don't follow.

[garbon]

At least in theory, the cops don't serve the Mayor, or even the city government--they serve the people of NYC.

[Ed Anger]

I'm not bothered by the "increasing militarization of the police", and of all us I'm the one who best fits the profile of a crazed lone gunman, which is the demographic most inconvenienced by armored vehicles.

Hell, I don't even see the cops on the beat being "militarized". The at-15's stay in the trunk if the department has them.

You only see the Armored Stuff roll out with SWAT.

[Admiral Yi]

I don't follow.

You seemed to suggest in your previous post that De Blasio's election was a winning rebuttal to the feelings among the police that he had unfairly criticized them.  I don't see how the two are related.

[Sheilbh]

You seemed to suggest in your previous post that De Blasio's election was a winning rebuttal to the feelings among the police that he had unfairly criticized them.  I don't see how the two are related.

They don't. That's not what I meant. He won an election and has a mandate. I think the NYPD are out of touch (as I say captured by producer interests) so he should reform them. That'd give them, like any other vested interest, something to really heckle about.

[DGuller]

At least in theory, the cops don't serve the Mayor, or even the city government--they serve the people of NYC.

In theory, the government represents the people, for logistical efficiencies and such, so dps's point fails even on that count.  We even have things called elections where we work out the details of such an arrangement.  It is customary to accept the results of such "elections" in our society, even if you don't like them, but we all know that some people are much better at it than others.

[Razgovory]

I'm not bothered by the "increasing militarization of the police", and of all us I'm the one who best fits the profile of a crazed lone gunman, which is the demographic most inconvenienced by armored vehicles.

Hell, I don't even see the cops on the beat being "militarized". The at-15's stay in the trunk if the department has them.

You only see the Armored Stuff roll out with SWAT.

The only real problem with the armored stuff is that it's wasteful spending for most jurisdictions.  Generally if you can either buy an armored vehicle or hire three more police officers you should probably go for the officers.