Ukraine's European Revolution?

[Tonitrus]

One random clip:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi_B637FCDY#t=480.  You have to respect the restraint from both sides, though I have a feeling that this is going to change.

While not a proponent of the government...I didn't see any restraint from the mob side against the police in that clip.  Quite the opposite.

[DGuller]

One random clip:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi_B637FCDY#t=480.  You have to respect the restraint from both sides, though I have a feeling that this is going to change.

While not a proponent of the government...I didn't see any restraint from the mob side against the police in that clip.  Quite the opposite.

They weren't throwing Molotov cocktails on them or trying to hurt them.  They just harassed them enough so that they would decide to retreat out of the building.

[Tonitrus]

Not trying to hurt them?  I saw lots of boards being slammed onto heads (and sometimes even after they ripped their helmets off), and then the guy swinging the metal end of a firehose at their heads.

[DGuller]

Not trying to hurt them?  I saw lots of boards being slammed onto heads (and sometimes even after they ripped their helmets off), and then the guy swinging the metal end of a firehose at their heads.

Well, some needed more convincing than others.    But at least among the protesters there were activists trying to pull back those who went too far.

[Tamas]

Not trying to hurt them?  I saw lots of boards being slammed onto heads (and sometimes even after they ripped their helmets off), and then the guy swinging the metal end of a firehose at their heads.

This is about whether Ukraine will become a second Belorussia, an autocraticly governed Russian satellite. It is no joking matter and whoever stands with force to support the Belorusification (ie. the police) is a valid target.

[Queequeg]

I very, very seriously doubt Russian troops will cross in to the Ukraine unless there's some kind of secession or violence against "ethnic Russians", which is a fucking retarded distinction in this case.

Kiev isn't foreign to Russia. That's an absurdity.

[Capetan Mihali]

Not trying to hurt them?  I saw lots of boards being slammed onto heads (and sometimes even after they ripped their helmets off), and then the guy swinging the metal end of a firehose at their heads.

This is about whether Ukraine will become a second Belorussia, an autocraticly governed Russian satellite. It is no joking matter and whoever stands with force to support the Belorusification (ie. the police) is a valid target.

We now see better the contours of Tamas' "classical liberalism."   Not that I disagree with the point in question.

See also the headscarf debate.

[DGuller]

I very, very seriously doubt Russian troops will cross in to the Ukraine unless there's some kind of secession or violence against "ethnic Russians", which is a fucking retarded distinction in this case.

Kiev isn't foreign to Russia. That's an absurdity.

There is a bit of a difference between Kievan Rus and modern Russian state originating from Muscovy.

[Grinning_Colossus]

Given the number of linguistic and historical ties between the three cultures, 'East Slavic' can kind of work as a supra-ethnicity in the same way that 'Scandinavian,' 'Arab,' and 'Chinese' do. The Russians use the term Rossiysky, which I think means roughly 'natively Russian-speaking and white.' But just like in those other cases, there are still real cultural differences within the broader group, and of course nationalist intellectuals in Ukraine have been doing a lot of identity construction over the last 20 years.

[Queequeg]

There is a bit of a difference between Kievan Rus and modern Russian state originating from Muscovy.

It's about the same difference as between Antwerp and Amsterdam, or Basel and Hamburg. 

[Tamas]

Not trying to hurt them?  I saw lots of boards being slammed onto heads (and sometimes even after they ripped their helmets off), and then the guy swinging the metal end of a firehose at their heads.

This is about whether Ukraine will become a second Belorussia, an autocraticly governed Russian satellite. It is no joking matter and whoever stands with force to support the Belorusification (ie. the police) is a valid target.

We now see better the contours of Tamas' "classical liberalism."   Not that I disagree with the point in question.

See also the headscarf debate.

Huh?

[Malthus]

Given the number of linguistic and historical ties between the three cultures, 'East Slavic' can kind of work as a supra-ethnicity in the same way that 'Scandinavian,' 'Arab,' and 'Chinese' do. The Russians use the term Rossiysky, which I think means roughly 'natively Russian-speaking and white.' But just like in those other cases, there are still real cultural differences within the broader group, and of course nationalist intellectuals in Ukraine have been doing a lot of identity construction over the last 20 years.

My wife's mother immigrated to Canada in the 1950s, and her family most definitely considered themselves "Ukranian" and in no way "Russian" even then.

Ukranian and Russian are apparently pretty different as languages (I don't speak either, but my wife is fluent in Ukranian and can understand Russian).

[Queequeg]

It's the difference between Swiss German and German. 

[Razgovory]

Perhaps a better example might be Yiddish and German, considering what the Ukrainian speaker suffered at the hands of their Russian brothers.

[Barrister]

How nice of Psellus to come along and tell me my ethnicity doesn't exist.