Massive use of chemical weapons in Syria, 1,429 killed including 426 children

[MadBurgerMaker]

There it is.  The dumbest sport ever.  If they got rid of the broomstick, there might be something to it, although I don't know the rules and such.

E:  The UCLA and Texas players broomsticks appear to be identical.  Are there standardized quidditch broomsticks????

[Legbiter]

Would be cool if the French swooped in, killed everybody and left the Druze in charge.

[frunk]

Would be cool if the French swooped in, killed everybody and left the Druze in charge.

Wow, you must really not like Quidditch.

[derspiess]

[sbr]

 

[Ed Anger]

Last Bill in Sinton post on BurntOrangeFanZone:

Jun 28th 2013.

[The Minsky Moment]

Hindsight's always 20/20, but when the options are Islamic Revolutionary Republics sponsored by Tehran's IRG/Hezbollah franchises and Saudi-sponsored Wahabbist/AQ extremism, secular albeit tribalist Ba'athism doesn't seem so unattractive.

I have to say that all those Youtube videos with Allahu Akbar swayed me.  They kind of made me think of what would happen once Assad got a knife in his pooper.  As bad as pieces of shit of like Assad are, as long as they're not total unpredictable nuts like Saddam, the alternatives are worse and even more of a dead end.  I think the worst mistake of our policy over the last couple of decades was undermining the secular butchers instead of Saudi brain washers.

I would argue that Saddam post-GW1 was about as predictable as they get.

Assad is not like that.  He is in Iran's pocket.  He is only predictable in the sense that it is predictable that he will further the interests of the Islamic Republic.  The Gulf Arabs for all their faults are materially better. 

[Sheilbh]

Turkey is right there. I am all for them going in and kicking ass and taking over responsibility for transitioning Syria to a functioning democratic state.

The US couldn't manage that in Iraq. I think it's a big ask for a still developing country. Especially given that Syria's got even more sectarian problems.

I think the Turks have done all that can be expected in helping the rebels as they can, but also hosting over 500 000 refugees.

Even if I operate under the assumption that this is a red line, and Syria has crossed, and the RotW MUST take action....what fucking action do we take?

Well we need to find out if chemical weapons were used and who by first of all. If so then I'd hope we could devise some limited response targeting their chemical weapons capability and the command structure within the regime.

Take out the regime? To be replaced by whom? 

I don't think the regime would be replaced by anyone. At the moment I think Syria would continue its civil war and continue its collapse into anarchy and warlordism. I mean nothing I've read has suggested there's a coherent rebel group anywhere near taking charge of the other rebels, far less the rest of the country.

[CountDeMoney]

Hindsight's always 20/20, but when the options are Islamic Revolutionary Republics sponsored by Tehran's IRG/Hezbollah franchises and Saudi-sponsored Wahabbist/AQ extremism, secular albeit tribalist Ba'athism doesn't seem so unattractive.

I have to say that all those Youtube videos with Allahu Akbar swayed me.  They kind of made me think of what would happen once Assad got a knife in his pooper.  As bad as pieces of shit of like Assad are, as long as they're not total unpredictable nuts like Saddam, the alternatives are worse and even more of a dead end.  I think the worst mistake of our policy over the last couple of decades was undermining the secular butchers instead of Saudi brain washers.

I would argue that Saddam post-GW1 was about as predictable as they get.

Assad is not like that.  He is in Iran's pocket.  He is only predictable in the sense that it is predictable that he will further the interests of the Islamic Republic.  The Gulf Arabs for all their faults are materially better.

I wasn't arguing that about Assad, but DG's contention that Saddam Hussein was unpredictable.
Lawyers.

[jimmy olsen]

US government estimates 1,000 to 1,800 killed.

I think that when the situation gets to this point the US should lay the hammer down, even if it means the country will collapse, if only to show that this kind of savegery will not be tolerated by the civilized world.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/us-talks-syria-chemical-weapons-use-allegations

Washington is split over how to respond to the latest attack, which it believes may have killed between 1,000 and 1,800 people.

[CountDeMoney]

Don't ever change, fellas.

The Russians and the Chinese are blunting American efforts to reinforce the powers of U.N. chemical weapons inspectors. FP's Colum Lynch, writing on The Cable: "Seizing on rebel claims that Syrian authorities massacred hundreds of civilians by firing chemically-laced rockets onto a Damascus suburb, the United States joined Britain and France in calling for an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council to rally international support for an investigation into the incident. The three western powers also wrote a letter to U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki moon, signed by 32 other governments, calling for an urgent investigation. But the efforts failed to result in anything other than a tepid statement from the Security Council thanks to some final edits by the Russians and Chinese. The Obama administration's goal was to have a U.N. chemical weapons team, which was already in Syria to investigate other chemical weapons allegations, launch a probe into the new allegations. That team, headed by Swedish scientist Ake Sellstrom, arrived in Damascus on Sunday. 'The United States, which was represented by the second highest ranking American official at the United Nations, Ambassador Rosemary Di Carlo, circulated a draft resolution, which was obtained by Foreign Policy, that called on U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki moon to 'urgently take the steps necessary for today's attack to be investigated by the U.N. mission on the ground.' But it also would have applied pressure on Syrian President Bashar al Assad to grant the inspectors greater latitude."

[Darth Wagtaros]

Shocking. 

[The Minsky Moment]

I wasn't arguing that about Assad, but DG's contention that Saddam Hussein was unpredictable.
Lawyers.

It wasn't directed at you personally.  Don't be so sensitive.   

[alfred russel]

I think that when the situation gets to this point the US should lay the hammer down, even if it means the country will collapse, if only to show that this kind of savegery will not be tolerated by the civilized world.

I agree. Nothing will better show our commitment against "savegery" and to civilization than to cause a country to collapse.

[derspiess]

And we certainly have not made enough "shows" like this in recent years.