Massive use of chemical weapons in Syria, 1,429 killed including 426 children

Started by jimmy olsen, August 21, 2013, 05:35:55 PM

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Ed Anger

Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

CountDeMoney

We should've always supported Ba'athism back in the day.  But noooo, smelled too much like communism.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Berkut on August 21, 2013, 06:57:10 PM
Is the utility of chemical weapons actually high enough to warrant their use?

I mean, I am not sure what the point is - it doesn't seem like it worth the trouble.

Point seems obvious to me.  Your enemy holds terrain with defensive advantages, like a built up area.  Just gas them and they're dead.  No need to send your own guys to root them out, exposing themselves to danger.

Plus the terror component: resist us and this will happen to you.

alfred russel

Quote from: Neil on August 21, 2013, 07:01:35 PM
Well, we know that the rebels are completely dishonest.  But on the other hand, we know that Assad thinks (correctly) that the West is too cowardly to stop him.

Maybe not. It isn't as though Assad is extremely secure atm. A bombing campaign wouldn't do him any favors and wouldn't cause the west to put much, if any, skin in the game.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

derspiess

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 07:04:40 PM
We should've always supported Ba'athism back in the day.  But noooo, smelled too much like communism.

It looked good on paper. Sadly it mutated into something quite nasty.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

alfred russel

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 07:06:31 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 21, 2013, 06:57:10 PM
Is the utility of chemical weapons actually high enough to warrant their use?

I mean, I am not sure what the point is - it doesn't seem like it worth the trouble.

Point seems obvious to me.  Your enemy holds terrain with defensive advantages, like a built up area.  Just gas them and they're dead.  No need to send your own guys to root them out, exposing themselves to danger.

Plus the terror component: resist us and this will happen to you.

Two other components: you've been waging a war for years, without a successful resolution in sight. Your troops might be getting antsy that they are expected to go all out while leadership is holding back. Also, there could be political pressure on Assad to do something differently in order to give confidence that a successful resolution can be brought.

Other possibilities: this was a rouge commander, or chemical weapons never were actually used.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

garbon

Quote from: alfred russel on August 21, 2013, 06:49:51 PM
I checked CNN and the story wasn't a headline (it was off to the side a bit).

I checked Fox News, and it was a somewhat buried story with an Obama oriented headline.

Even the BBC didn't have it as the lead (that was Bradley Manning), but at least gave it second billing.



Yahoo news has it on top.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

11B4V

"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 07:04:40 PM
We should've always supported Ba'athism back in the day.  But noooo, smelled too much like communism.

It looked good on paper. Sadly it mutated into something quite nasty.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but when the options are Islamic Revolutionary Republics sponsored by Tehran's IRG/Hezbollah franchises and Saudi-sponsored Wahabbist/AQ extremism, secular albeit tribalist Ba'athism doesn't seem so unattractive.

11B4V

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 21, 2013, 07:02:06 PM
Assad gets +2 die roll modifier for 3 turns.

Column shifts. Dont you know nothing about chemical weapons.  :P
"there's a long tradition of insulting people we disagree with here, and I'll be damned if I listen to your entreaties otherwise."-OVB

"Obviously not a Berkut-commanded armored column.  They're not all brewing."- CdM

"We've reached one of our phase lines after the firefight and it smells bad—meaning it's a little bit suspicious... Could be an amb—".

CountDeMoney

Quote from: 11B4V on August 21, 2013, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 21, 2013, 07:02:06 PM
Assad gets +2 die roll modifier for 3 turns.

Column shifts. Dont you know nothing about chemical weapons.  :P

:lol:  No shit.  Nothing like a lil' boost for the 3rd Shock in Turn 5.   :P

dps

Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 07:17:51 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2013, 07:09:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 07:04:40 PM
We should've always supported Ba'athism back in the day.  But noooo, smelled too much like communism.

It looked good on paper. Sadly it mutated into something quite nasty.

Hindsight's always 20/20, but when the options are Islamic Revolutionary Republics sponsored by Tehran's IRG/Hezbollah franchises and Saudi-sponsored Wahabbist/AQ extremism, secular albeit tribalist Ba'athism doesn't seem so unattractive.

Well, in retrospect, just looked at from the standpoint of our own interests, helping the Europeans keep their colonial empires instead of largely dismantling them in the quarter century after WWII would have been the best bet.  Except, of course, for the fact that by 1945 they weren't really able to keep ahold of them, and we would have had to do the bulk of the heavy lifting anyway.

Razgovory

Even countries that didn't suffer during WWII, like Portugal weren't able to keep their colonial empires.  Decolonization was inevitable.  The war just helped it along.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Ed Anger

Quote from: 11B4V on August 21, 2013, 07:18:39 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 21, 2013, 07:02:06 PM
Assad gets +2 die roll modifier for 3 turns.

Column shifts. Dont you know nothing about chemical weapons.  :P

Excuse me for not remembering rules.  :blurgh:
Stay Alive...Let the Man Drive

DontSayBanana

Quote from: Ed Anger on August 21, 2013, 05:37:42 PM
Go Bashir!  :yeah:

You get a pass, since you just mistakenly rooted for a genetically-engineered superman.



Khan plus subtlety minus William Shatner:

Go Bashir!  :yeah:
Experience bij!