Chicago Teachers Union leader Karen Lewis pushed back — and won

[Admiral Yi]

The Old Gray Lady sides with the Democratic establishment over the teachers' unions. 

[DGuller]

Employee contributions to pensions are a non-issue, just like the fact that half of SS taxes are paid by employer.  This is literally an Econ 101 fact.  Demanding higher employee contributions is nothing more than a concealed pay cut.  The totality of contributions to salary and benefits makes up the total employee pay package.  This is all a matter of framing.

[CountDeMoney]

I also think CdM is wrong on private teacher pay. I don't have national figures but local teachers I know that went private actually tell me they do not earn more than their public school counterparts nor are their benefits as good. Most of them did it because the work environment is far better, the type of teaching they are allowed to do is far more enjoyable, and because the school can be selective in who it admits the kids they deal with are a lot better to work with than inner city youths.

Meh, on average they probably don't, since a substantial number of private schools are in faith-based organizations;  my sister taught for the Friends, but they're a little Quaker squirrelly anyway.  Pay was twitchy, but the benefits were boffo, though.  Couldn't stand the atmosphere.

[CountDeMoney]

Pension Fund Is Running Dry

The Chicago Teachers' Pension Fund is paying out more than $1 billion a year — much more than it has been taking in — and experts say the fund could collapse within a few years

Good, then everybody will be happy.

Personally, I really don't care; I have no kids, don't plan on having any kids.  Otto and Ed and a select few may have the means to send their progeny off to private school, so good for them;  the rest of you mutts can send your unaborted snot-nosed mongoloids to a public school system nobody wants to fund along with the rest of the zip code's mouthbreathers.  Because "teachers make too much".  Wait until they don't, and see the shit that profession really attracts.  Look at the South.

Most of it'll be privatized in 25 to 35 years anyway, with the same basic problems.  Cities can then send their education budgets straight over to the police overtime budget.

So much for the concept of national public school education system.  Everybody for themselves, just like everything else.

[Admiral Yi]

Employee contributions to pensions are a non-issue, just like the fact that half of SS taxes are paid by employer.  This is literally an Econ 101 fact.  Demanding higher employee contributions is nothing more than a concealed pay cut.  The totality of contributions to salary and benefits makes up the total employee pay package.  This is all a matter of framing.

Can't disagree, but I wonder why you're talking about pay cuts when the article just posted was talking *reducing* employee contributions to pensions, hence raising their take home pay and their overall compensation.

[Admiral Yi]

Most of it'll be privatized in 25 to 35 years anyway, with the same basic problems.

The most basic problem--the ability of teachers' unions to bribe their legislatures for more pay--would then no longer exist.

[Phillip V]

Pension Fund Is Running Dry

The Chicago Teachers' Pension Fund is paying out more than $1 billion a year — much more than it has been taking in — and experts say the fund could collapse within a few years

Good, then everybody will be happy.

Personally, I really don't care; I have no kids, don't plan on having any kids.  Otto and Ed and a select few may have the means to send their progeny off to private school, so good for them;  the rest of you mutts can send your unaborted snot-nosed mongoloids to a public school system nobody wants to fund along with the rest of the zip code's mouthbreathers.  Because "teachers make too much".  Wait until they don't, and see the shit that profession really attracts.  Look at the South.

Most of it'll be privatized in 25 to 35 years anyway, with the same basic problems.  Cities can then send their education budgets straight over to the police overtime budget.

So much for the concept of national public school education system.  Everybody for themselves, just like everything else.

Public school system already sucks. Thus, my kids will be homeschooled. They should be able to meet all the requirements of a high school diploma between the ages of 14-16, then go off and do whatever they want.

[DGuller]

Employee contributions to pensions are a non-issue, just like the fact that half of SS taxes are paid by employer.  This is literally an Econ 101 fact.  Demanding higher employee contributions is nothing more than a concealed pay cut.  The totality of contributions to salary and benefits makes up the total employee pay package.  This is all a matter of framing.

Can't disagree, but I wonder why you're talking about pay cuts when the article just posted was talking *reducing* employee contributions to pensions, hence raising their take home pay and their overall compensation.

I was reacting to the argument in general, and in particular reference to Walker's BS.  The direction of the effect is immaterial if the argument is bunk.  I'm not taking a position here, I'm just shooting down an intelligently dishonest argument that forms the core of the article.

[CountDeMoney]

Most of it'll be privatized in 25 to 35 years anyway, with the same basic problems.

The most basic problem--the ability of teachers' unions to bribe their legislatures for more pay--would then no longer exist.

I'm sure you're looking forward to your anti-union orgasm with great anticipation.

[CountDeMoney]

Public school system already sucks. Thus, my kids will be homeschooled. They should be able to meet all the requirements of a high school diploma between the ages of 14-16, then go off and do whatever they want.

Good, more developmentally arrested monkeys running around.  Be sure to call Timmay for the textbooks.

[Admiral Yi]

I'm sure you're looking forward to your anti-union orgasm with great anticipation.

If this thread goes on for another two or three pages your posts are going to be 100% content-free.

[CountDeMoney]

I'm sure you're looking forward to your anti-union orgasm with great anticipation.

If this thread goes on for another two or three pages your posts are going to be 100% content-free.

You come up with bullshit like "the most basic problem of public education is the ability of teachers' unions to bribe their legislatures for more pay", you get bullshit right back.

[DGuller]

  That is a pretty bullshit thing to say.  I'd say the most basic problem with education is the pervasive anti-intellectualism in our society.  Unfortunately, the people taking aim at teachers' unions are also the people doing the most they can to advance that problem further.

[Admiral Yi]

That is a pretty bullshit thing to say.  I'd say the most basic problem with education is the pervasive anti-intellectualism in our society.  Unfortunately, the people taking aim at teachers' unions are also the people doing the most they can to advance that problem further.

That's a harsh thing to say about Rahm Emmanuel and Andrew Cuomo. 

[Razgovory]

I don't think the Teacher Union in Missouri can strike.  It's pretty toothless.  So I suppose the most basic problem with public education doesn't exist in Missouri!  Hooray!  Wait why does Missouri seem to consistently rank poorly on National test scores and the like?