Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?

Started by jimmy olsen, March 21, 2012, 11:32:23 PM

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grumbler

#255
March 23, 2012, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2012, 12:28:48 PM
I blame Europe.  All this mischief is happening because folks who used to be decent Amurricans are importing fancy "doctrines" into statutes and having judges rule on them instead of juries, like a bunch of Romanophile civil law trained Poles.

I was thinking the same thing.  Euros should be happy elites get to make the decisions in this law, rather than plebs.  The results suck, but then the results suck there, too.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

CountDeMoney

#256
March 23, 2012, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2012, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on March 23, 2012, 11:37:01 AM
Hell, as I currently understand SYG, "I Shot the Sheriff" would end after the line "I swear it was in self-defense."

It would be worth it if I never had to hear Bob Dylan sing "Hurricane"

Sacrilege!  :mad:

I hope Denzel knocks you the fuck out.

derspiess

#257
March 23, 2012, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
We're not talking about the Castle doctrine, and even if we were, that has nothing to do with property rights so much as it does creating a climate of fear.

You have it the wrong way around, but it's pointless to argue.
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

The Brain

#258
March 23, 2012, 12:55:26 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2012, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on March 23, 2012, 11:37:01 AM
Hell, as I currently understand SYG, "I Shot the Sheriff" would end after the line "I swear it was in self-defense."

It would be worth it if I never had to hear Bob Dylan sing "Hurricane"

Where is Buddha btw?
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Neil

#259
March 23, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
We're not talking about the Castle doctrine, and even if we were, that has nothing to do with property rights so much as it does creating a climate of fear.
You have it the wrong way around, but it's pointless to argue.
I think that you can defend property rights without resorting to warlordism.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

Admiral Yi

#260
March 23, 2012, 02:31:29 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on March 23, 2012, 12:31:31 PM
It would be worth it if I never had to hear Bob Dylan sing "Hurricane"

What's your knock on Hurricane? :huh:

derspiess

#261
March 23, 2012, 02:34:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
We're not talking about the Castle doctrine, and even if we were, that has nothing to do with property rights so much as it does creating a climate of fear.
You have it the wrong way around, but it's pointless to argue.
I think that you can defend property rights without resorting to warlordism.

Fine.  Enjoy your Canadianity  :)
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Valmy

#262
March 23, 2012, 02:35:54 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
I think that you can defend property rights without resorting to warlordism.

How?  Without that doctrine the only option is to flee your own house when there is a break-in.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

CountDeMoney

#263
March 23, 2012, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 02:34:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
We're not talking about the Castle doctrine, and even if we were, that has nothing to do with property rights so much as it does creating a climate of fear.
You have it the wrong way around, but it's pointless to argue.
I think that you can defend property rights without resorting to warlordism.

Fine.  Enjoy your Canadianity  :)

With 554 total homicides in the entire country in 2011, I'm sure he is.

Razgovory

#264
March 23, 2012, 02:42:47 PM
The Castle doctrine makes sense to me.  You shouldn't be expected to run and hide if someone breaks in.  I think there is a difference though between defending your home and running down a guy who was trying to boost your car stereo and killing him with a knife.  I don't think that is acceptable.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney

#265
March 23, 2012, 02:45:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2012, 02:42:47 PM
The Castle doctrine makes sense to me.  You shouldn't be expected to run and hide if someone breaks in. 

You're not expected to hide, dummy.  That's not extricating yourself from the situation.

Neil

#266
March 23, 2012, 02:51:06 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 02:34:16 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 12:45:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on March 23, 2012, 12:22:45 PM
We're not talking about the Castle doctrine, and even if we were, that has nothing to do with property rights so much as it does creating a climate of fear.
You have it the wrong way around, but it's pointless to argue.
I think that you can defend property rights without resorting to warlordism.
Fine.  Enjoy your Canadianity  :)
I do.  It's called 'civilization'.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

derspiess

#267
March 23, 2012, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2012, 02:42:47 PM
The Castle doctrine makes sense to me.  You shouldn't be expected to run and hide if someone breaks in.  I think there is a difference though between defending your home and running down a guy who was trying to boost your car stereo and killing him with a knife.  I don't think that is acceptable.

Is it okay to rough him up a little?
"If you can play a guitar and harmonica at the same time, like Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you're a genius. But make that extra bit of effort and strap some cymbals to your knees, suddenly people want to get the hell away from you."  --Rich Hall

Razgovory

#268
March 23, 2012, 02:59:40 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on March 23, 2012, 02:45:04 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2012, 02:42:47 PM
The Castle doctrine makes sense to me.  You shouldn't be expected to run and hide if someone breaks in. 

You're not expected to hide, dummy.  That's not extricating yourself from the situation.

I can't run very fast.  I don't think a person should be having to wonder if he has done his duty to avoid using deadly force while someone is in kicking down your door.  I imagine you would have to think and act quickly and wouldn't want the person in the home to die as they try to work out what their legal rights are.  On the other hand, I don't think that it's desirable for derspeiss to blow away some girl scouts selling cookies that he thought might be Islamic terrorists come to hijack his deck.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Razgovory

#269
March 23, 2012, 03:00:38 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 23, 2012, 02:56:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2012, 02:42:47 PM
The Castle doctrine makes sense to me.  You shouldn't be expected to run and hide if someone breaks in.  I think there is a difference though between defending your home and running down a guy who was trying to boost your car stereo and killing him with a knife.  I don't think that is acceptable.

Is it okay to rough him up a little?

Yeah, that's fine.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017
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