Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?

[Caliga]

Till I pulled that I had forgotten you can also legally kill someone who is trying to throw you out of your house.

I am looking forward to the day when someone here blows a foreclosure agent away because they didn't quite understand the nuances of that statute.

[sbr]

Till I pulled that I had forgotten you can also legally kill someone who is trying to throw you out of your house.

I am looking forward to the day when someone here blows a foreclosure agent away because they didn't quite understand the nuances of that statute.

I would be fine with that, no matter what color either person was.

[Ed Anger]

I am perfectly fine annihilating an intruder on my property. Or thanks to the amended law, my car.

[CountDeMoney]

Till I pulled that I had forgotten you can also legally kill someone who is trying to throw you out of your house.

I am looking forward to the day when someone here blows a foreclosure agent away because they didn't quite understand the nuances of that statute.

Or, more likely, the deputy sheriffs.  That'll be a real hoot, yeah.

[DontSayBanana]

Yeah, SYG being decided by judges is a major common sense no-no.  Dismissal means there's not enough to prosecute the case, not that the defendant's defense is valid- as has been said throughout this thread, that's for juries, not judges, to decide.

Silently, DOJ memorandums carry a lot of weight in the court system.  I suspect after this has died down, or even concurrently, DOJ's going to issue a memo re-affirming that defenses should be decided by juries and that a failure to indict based on a possible valid defense is unacceptable, which will then wend its way through the Florida court system.

[OttoVonBismarck]

I usually skip over Raz's posts, is there something here saying the indictment itself is going to be decided on by a judge? That begs the question of what Norm Wolfinger's grand jury is going to be doing...my understanding is they can indict if they wish.

[DontSayBanana]

I usually skip over Raz's posts, is there something here saying the indictment itself is going to be decided on by a judge? That begs the question of what Norm Wolfinger's grand jury is going to be doing...my understanding is they can indict if they wish.

Earlier in the thread, there were links to a couple of cases where judges dismissed cases on SYG grounds.  Basically, the brouhaha (and why DOJ's down there in the first place) is because they're investigating whether the police are hiding behind SYG when they're actually racially profiling.

The 911 logs suggest the guy was known to be a little off when it came to black people in the neighborhood, the vic wasn't armed in any way... if the coroner's report says anything about defensive wounds, this shitstorm's only going to get bigger.

All told, this is Seminole County we're talking about.  I hate to say it, but I've come to expect this kind of nonsense from Seminole and Sarasota.  They seriously need to put the cops in those two counties on short leashes.

[Razgovory]

I've read a lot about this. I think the police committed some procedural errors and may have acted out of bias, and they have also done a very bad job of handling the parents and the general publicity behind this thing.

However some things that were not accurately repeated in this thread:

1. The investigation did not end at the scene. Zimmerman was taken to the police station, received a mug shot (that is actually the picture of him most people are seeing on the news), and gave a statement to police.

Shame you don't read my posts, cause then you'd find that your statement is incorrect.  The photo that is being displayed in the news is from a previous 2005 arrest.  I have yet to find any report that indicates that Zimmerman was taken to the police station for this incident rather then giving his statement to the police at the scene.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Shame you don't read my posts, cause then you'd find that your statement is incorrect.  The photo that is being displayed in the news is from a previous 2005 arrest.  I have yet to find any report that indicates that Zimmerman was taken to the police station for this incident rather then giving his statement to the police at the scene.

Then you're an idiot who is uninformed.

He was handcuffed and taken to the police station for questioning. From Reuters:

A police report made public on Wednesday said Martin's death was originally investigated as a homicide, specifically an "unnecessary killing to prevent an unlawful act."

The report, made by the first two officers to arrive at the scene of the shooting, cited a state law that says someone who unnecessarily kills another person while trying to prevent that person from committing an unlawful act, "shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter."

The report said that when the first officer arrived, Martin was lying "face-down on the ground" with his hands beneath him and that Zimmerman told the officer "that he had shot the subject and he (Zimmerman) was still armed."

The officer said he handcuffed Zimmerman and removed the gun and holster from inside Zimmerman's waistband, and saw that his back was "wet and covered in grass" and that he was "bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

Zimmerman was put in the backseat of a police cruiser, given first aid by paramedics and taken to the police station to be interviewed by investigators.

The first officer at the scene, Timothy Smith, wrote in the report that he did not question Zimmerman at the scene.

But that appeared to be contradicted in a "Dear Citizens" statement posted Wednesday on the city's website by City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr.. The statement expressed the city's "heartfelt sympathies to the Martin family," and provided a series of answers by Lee abou t the case.

In his answers, Lee explained that when police arrived at the scene, Zimmerman "provided a statement claiming he acted in self-defense, which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony."

Lee quoted Zimmerman as saying that "he had lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his truck .... when he says he was attacked by Trayvon."

Lee said that under Florida law police were prohibited from arresting Zimmerman because he said he acted in self-defense.

Please kill yourself.

[Razgovory]

Doesn't disprove my statement about the photo.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Doesn't disprove my statement about the photo.

True, but I feel on the substantive point I prevailed so I split the exchange 70/30 in my favor.

[Razgovory]

I suppose that means you have to kill yourself 30% to my 70%.

[Eddie Teach]

Maybe we kill you both and make a Frankenstein monster that's 70% Otto, 30% Raz? 

[Rasputin]

the mob has won; governor scott appointed the prosecutor of the circuit encompassing jacksonville to oversee the "investigation." Inasmuch as she almost never declines to prosecute, usually doesnt chance things with a grand jury and rarely plea bargins, I suspect the appointment pre-ordains the result

i believe that she will direct file a prosecution and bypass a grand jury enirely within the next week

she will likely try the case and let the chips fall where they may

[crazy canuck]

Does this mean we are not going to get a frankenRazOttostein?