Trayvon Martin case: use of Stand Your Ground law or pursuit of a black teen?

[sbr]

I always thought Conservatives were supposed to be tough on criminals not make laws enabling them to literally get away with murder.

Only on non-violent crimes, drug related and such, you can't do anything that could possibly infringe on the rights of gun owners.

Or white people to kill brown people.

[CountDeMoney]

Quick stats from the Tampa Bay (read: ST PETERSBURG  ) Times:

'Stand your ground' cases

130: The total number of "stand your ground" cases we have identified since the law was passed in 2010. Of those cases, the number of people who have been cleared of wrongdoing is 74.

In Tampa Bay:

Trevor Dooley, 2010, Valrico: Dooley walked to a park to chase away a skateboarder when David James, who was playing basketball with his daughter, confronted him. Dooley produced a gun and fatally shot James. Judge heard testimony in a "stand your ground" hearing and is expected to make a ruling soon.

James Behanna, 2005, Tampa: First Hillsborough case to test the law. Paralegal stabbed man who trespassed on property and then threatened to kill Behanna. He was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to 15 years in prison. Granted new trial on appeal, pleaded guilty and got 42 months of probation.

Jacqueline Galas, 2006, Port Richey: Prostitute shot 72-year-old customer in self-defense after he threatened her with a gun. This was the first time prosecutors in Pasco had dropped a murder charge because of the law.

Max Wesley Horn, 2008, Pasco County: Horn fatally shot Joseph Martel after argument at Chasco Fiesta. He was acquitted after two years in jail.

Gregory Allan Stewart, 2009, Wesley Chapel: Shot William Kuch, a drunk, unarmed and confused man, who tried to enter the wrong house. Charged with aggravated battery but charges were later dropped.

[Valmy]

I'll remember that when I shoot you in the face for coming after me with a boat. 

Shall we duel with motor boats in Baltimore harbor?

[Razgovory]

I can so see Scip shooting and killing one his own clients who dared walk on his property because Scip decided that "Office hours" ended at two in the afternoon that day.

[sbr]

They should set a GTA game in Baltimore.

[CountDeMoney]

I'll remember that when I shoot you in the face for coming after me with a boat. 

Shall we duel with motor boats in Baltimore harbor?

I don't fight fair.  You'd never make it to the trailer landing.  I STOOD MY GROUND

[CountDeMoney]

I can so see Scip shooting and killing one his own clients who dared walk on his property because Scip decided that "Office hours" ended at two in the afternoon that day.

  Awesome obscure dated reference.  STAND YOUR OFFICE HOURS

[Martinus]

If it's truly murder, yeah.

Eh if I was going to plan to commit a murder I pretty much have the blueprint here: force an altercation and provoke an attack (it seems just a fistfight if sufficient) and then I can legally commit homicide.

I think this mentality that derspiess is exhibiting is rooted in the "outlaw" concept that is pretty much rejected in modern criminal justice system. I.e. he believes that someone who breaks the law (e.g. by stealing something) becomes a fair game for someone to shoot him down or stab to death.

Neil is right in saying that this has very little to do with the principles of conservatism, but everything to do with the frontier mentality of the Wild West. That's why your justice system is so different from pretty much every other Western nation.

[DontSayBanana]

  Awesome obscure dated reference.  STAND YOUR OFFICE HOURS

Raz strikes gold again.

Anyway, the Trayvon Martin thing sounds like it wouldn't even stand up to SYG.  The dude was armed with, survey says... a bag of Skittles.  Is SYG so vague that you can be justified by being afraid of a black guy?

[HisMajestyBOB]

  Awesome obscure dated reference.  STAND YOUR OFFICE HOURS

Raz strikes gold again.

Anyway, the Trayvon Martin thing sounds like it wouldn't even stand up to SYG.  The dude was armed with, survey says... a bag of Skittles.  Is SYG so vague that you can be justified by being afraid of a black guy?

Max Wesley Horn, 2008, Pasco County: Horn fatally shot Joseph Martel after argument at Chasco Fiesta. He was acquitted after two years in jail.

Gregory Allan Stewart, 2009, Wesley Chapel: Shot William Kuch, a drunk, unarmed and confused man, who tried to enter the wrong house. Charged with aggravated battery but charges were later dropped.

I'd say skittles are more dangerous than an argument or a drunk, unarmed and lost man.
You could choke someone if you crammed them down their throat!

[crazy canuck]

Of course if this idiot didnt have a gun in the first place....

In a society that can justify allowing its citizens to carry concealed guns this sort of thing is bound to happen.

[DontSayBanana]

I'd say skittles are more dangerous than an argument or a drunk, unarmed and lost man.
You could choke someone if you crammed them down their throat!

Jesus tapdancing christ.  Sorry, PLJ, but Florida = the USA's armpit.

[derspiess]

Neil is right in saying that this has very little to do with the principles of conservatism, but everything to do with the frontier mentality of the Wild West. That's why your justice system is so different from pretty much every other Western nation.

No, he's not.  At least in terms of the Castle Doctrine, it has to do with property rights, which is very much a key principle in Conservatism.

[DontSayBanana]

No, he's not.  At least in terms of the Castle Doctrine, it has to do with property rights, which is very much a key principle in Conservatism.

I dunno, everything I'm hearing makes me think Florida's going Wild West.  Hell, as I currently understand SYG, "I Shot the Sheriff" would end after the line "I swear it was in self-defense."

[crazy canuck]

No, he's not.  At least in terms of the Castle Doctrine, it has to do with property rights, which is very much a key principle in Conservatism.

What is the connection between property rights and gun control laws.  They are not linked in Canada.