[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Malthus]

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

So, much like the federal civil service, Canadian leadership candidates are disproportionately from Quebec due to the need for such people to be bilingual.

English Canadians would never elect someone who does not speak english or speaks a very bad english.  There is no such thing as a French Canadian politician, municipal, provincial or federal, speaking a broken english.

What about this fellow?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chr%C3%A9tien

[Valmy]

Snails > cheese curds

Patronizing Texan 

Seriously:  snails!?!!

I have never even been to Quebec you cannot expect me to know much about it.

And...what? I like escargot

[viper37]

Or else how do you explain how very few anglo Canadians speak French (outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and the Ottawa region)?

Lazyness

Simply put: english speakers in the Canada and US do not need to learn another language.  They can get the best jobs at every level just by speaking english.  French offers no added value outside low level jobs in the Federal government and some highly specialized work.  Being bilingual English-French does not lend you a better salary on Bay Street.  It does not lead you to rapid advance in the private sector, even in Quebec.

So why bother?  That's like learning piano, you do it for fun, mostly.  Only a very few will actually use this skill professionally.  Or learning portuguese for a Québécois.  It could be fun, but not much practical in day to day life.

While in Quebec, or anywhere in Canada, learning english is kinda essential if you want a decent job outside your very small hometown.  Even then, the best opportunities are for bilingual (french-english) people.  In Montreal, I don't think you can go hihger than cashier or low level customer support if you don't have a basic grasp of english.  Most business admin faculties require bilinguism as a pre-requisite for graduation.

[Josephus]

I honestly wish I forced myself to learn French. I gave up on it too early, Grade 11. Man those odd verb tenses are tough. But it is embarrasing whenever I travel and come across Europeans who speak like five fucking languages. "Ah you are Canadian, you speak French, no?"

"Um......no, not really."

[Valmy]

Simply put: english speakers in the Canada and US do not need to learn another language. 

It is terrible. Just being in a English speaking place will make you hemorrhage language skills. But it is not just Canada and the US. The Brits, Kiwis, and Aussies are just as bad.

[HVC]

Simply put: english speakers in the Canada and US do not need to learn another language. 

It is terrible. Just being in a English speaking place will make you hemorrhage language skills. But it is not just Canada and the US. The Brits, Kiwis, and Aussies are just as bad.

language is a means of communication and if you don't need another language to communicate most people won't learn it. It isn't a part of speaking English, it's part of spoken the dominant economic language. If another language had that mantle then English speaking people would learn it. I'm bilingual in Portuguese but it offers me very little utility. I speak it because I communicate with elderly family members and they're more comfortable with Portuguese. If I have kids I doubt I'll teach them Portuguese.

[Valmy]

Simply put: english speakers in the Canada and US do not need to learn another language. 

It is terrible. Just being in a English speaking place will make you hemorrhage language skills. But it is not just Canada and the US. The Brits, Kiwis, and Aussies are just as bad.

language is a means of communication and if you don't need another language to communicate most people won't learn it. It isn't a part of speaking English, it's part of spoken the dominant economic language. If another language had that mantle then English speaking people would learn it. I'm bilingual in Portuguese but it offers me very little utility. I speak it because I communicate with elderly family members and they're more comfortable with Portuguese. If I have kids I doubt I'll teach them Portuguese.

I am saying if you do know another language it goes fast. The supreme amount of effort I spend in just maintaining my French skills is crazy. I know Euros who speak five languages are not doing this crap for each and every language they know, or they would do nothing but.

[Drakken]

The other biggie embedded in the Constitution itself are the Native Canadians. They also tend to clash in interests with the non-Native Canadian Québécois the most.

Of course, in the big cities such as Toronto or Vancouver, the notion of a unified Anglo Canada is an anachronism now.

When talking about Quebec and ROC it is just semantics. Quebec's big chip on its collective shoulder is not with the Sikhs or the Native Canadians, it's with the nine-provinces ROC collectively. In other words and to resume, You and the kind of dismissive attitude you have just showcased.

The first thing you need to learn if you wish to get Quebecers, especially French-Quebecers, is that they do not like to be patronized on their history and their national ideology, especially not by an WASP. While it might be true on the paper, it is a big faux pas to reduce their identity to one among many when they have founded the damn Canada. It is also a social faux pas to pedantly show where your interlocutor is wrong, and why. At least according to Carnagie.

Why? It reeks of the usual paternalism and dismissiveness that, if attempted in Quebec, usually ends up with said Anglophone either given the cold shoulder by his interlocutor if he is polite, or a very loud décâlisse d'icitte ostie d'Anglo if he not. And, if drunk, comes with the risk of a push and a scuffle. And, I might have, even if the interlocutor himself is a federalist.

[crazy canuck]

The other biggie embedded in the Constitution itself are the Native Canadians. They also tend to clash in interests with the non-Native Canadian Québécois the most.

Of course, in the big cities such as Toronto or Vancouver, the notion of a unified Anglo Canada is an anachronism now.

When talking about Quebec and ROC it is just semantics. Quebec's big chip on its collective shoulder is not with the Sikhs or the Native Canadians, it's with the nine-provinces ROC collectively. In other words and to resume, You and the kind of dismissive attitude you have just showcased.

The first thing you need to learn if you wish to get Quebecers, especially French-Quebecers, is that they do not like to be patronized on their history and their national ideology, especially not by an WASP. While it might be true on the paper, it is a big faux pas to reduce their identity to one among many when they have founded the damn Canada. It is also a social faux pas to pedantly show where your interlocutor is wrong, and why. At least according to Carnagie.

Why? It reeks of the usual paternalism and dismissiveness that, if attempted in Quebec, usually ends up with said Anglophone either given the cold shoulder by his interlocutor if he is polite, or a very loud décâlisse d'icitte ostie d'Anglo if he not. And, if drunk, comes with the risk of a push and a scuffle. And, I might have, even if the interlocutor himself is a federalist.

Malthus is a WASP 

Do you understand why sometimes you might be viewed as a bit myopic?

And the First Nations folks have a thing or two to say about the founding of this nation and the fact that there would never have been a nation at all if not for their participation at critical points.  The war of 1812 comes to mind as one example.

It is dismissive in the extreme for people from Quebec to insist that it is patronizing to point out these facts.

[viper37]

I have never even been to Quebec you cannot expect me to know much about it.

What are you waiting for?  Quebec's gastronomy is the finest in North America!

And...what? I like escargot

I tried it once, never again will I try that

[viper37]

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

So, much like the federal civil service, Canadian leadership candidates are disproportionately from Quebec due to the need for such people to be bilingual.

English Canadians would never elect someone who does not speak english or speaks a very bad english.  There is no such thing as a French Canadian politician, municipal, provincial or federal, speaking a broken english.

What about this fellow?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Chr%C3%A9tien

His french was worst than his english.

But he got elected with the promised to "fix" Quebec's problem.

[viper37]

That is why I asked the question.  All those things are possible without being born in the Province of Quebec.

Of course they are possible.  But they generally make you unpopular in Canada.  See the criticism against Harper for speaking French.

Every federal political leader of a party speaks French. 

I meant using French in public adresses abroad, like Merkel is using German, like Erdogan is using Turkish, etc, etc.

[viper37]

It worked for him, because he was the first Anglophone politician to actually take all those those things that made us mentally divorce from Canada, and at least attempt to make it right. It worked so well, that Quebecers ditched the BQ like a dead stick.

Harper did it too, he was the first, imho, though that's not really important who got there first.  Anyway, both had a very different style.  Layton was the guy you wanted to share a drink with, Harper was the guy you wanted to take care of your investment portfolio.

[viper37]

because when was the last time the average person actually needed to know, or use, trig? 

nearly every day of my life.

Calculus on the other hand...

[Valmy]

What are you waiting for?  Quebec's gastronomy is the finest in North America!

Money and time mostly

I do want to see Ville de Québec at some point. The rest of Canada doesn't excite me that much. Well unless I end up moving to that island after Trump gets elected.