[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

Interesting.  If the NDP move further to the left why would they lose their appeal in Quebec?

Do you know a lot of Political parties popular in Quebec without a Quebec born leader?

Do you think that Jack Layton being born in Montreal was really that significant?

Yes. I think the same man but born in Kingston only makes him look like a patronizing Ontarian.

Poor Valmy will always only be almost French 

[Grey Fox]

Oh, he can be french. He'll just never be a Québécois.

[crazy canuck]

Is it a strong sense of tribalism or something else that makes being born in Quebec necessary for a successful federal politician?

[Valmy]

Oh, he can be french. He'll just never be a Québécois.

Je m'en fou...er....fiche

Snails > cheese curds

[Barrister]

Is it a strong sense of tribalism or something else that makes being born in Quebec necessary for a successful federal politician?

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

So, much like the federal civil service, Canadian leadership candidates are disproportionately from Quebec due to the need for such people to be bilingual.

[Josephus]

As a former, and occasional, NDP voter, I'm not sorry to see him go. He grossly underestimated Trudeau in the election as well as overestimated leftists' desire to move to the centre.

Everybody grossly underestimated Trudeau.  I don't think it is fair to single out Mulcair for not being the one person who realized the prevailing wisdom would turn out wrong.

I didn't 

But also, once the campaign got going everyone could see that Trudeau started gaining momentum, pretty much from Day One, and that he was unashamedly picking up the normally left wing ideologoical issues that Mulcair threw away. Mulcair didn't see this until it was too late. He kept on talking about balanced budgets like a tired mantra. He was never going to beat Harper on a balanced budget platform.

[Drakken]

There don't appear to be any real obvious figures for the NDP to turn to.  It will interesting to see where they go.  Grallon's suggestion that they will lose Quebec support without a Quebec leader is not without merit.  NDP support in Quebec is a very new thing.  Up until Jack Layton they had no MPs from Quebec, and in fact had only ever elected one MP from that province (maverick Phil Edmonston).

The fact that Mulcair was an autocrat who purged any staffer who took side against him to the leadership race, and also had dubious leftist credentials, didn't help also. Structurally, however, there is a latent distrust and unease in the Rest-of-Canada NDP about Quebec candidates and MPs. After the Orange Crush-wave they had feared that the Quebec-wing of the NDP would become a nest of Separatists who join the NDP because the Bloc was a dead horse, and I am not sure that unease has completely disappeared. And if you ask why and how I know that, I protect my sources. 

What directly sunk his boat, to me, was the stupidest of stupid strategic choice to hold a debate on whether Canada under an NDP leadership would abandon fossil fuel in Edmonton, with the place packed with delegates from Alberta. Not even Notley was amused, and it help cleave the floor between those delegates (represented among others by Quebec-based delegates and Mulcair's staffers) who want to drive the NDP even further on the left, and the Albertan delegates who obviously want nothing of that.

[Drakken]

Is it a strong sense of tribalism or something else that makes being born in Quebec necessary for a successful federal politician?

Basic maths, we have the second-most seats in the House of Commons.

And basic Canadian geography and history, we speak French, and we are very, VERY touchy-sensitive about our place in Canada.

[Drakken]

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

Quebecers will start supporting someone who does not speak French when said someone demonstrated he or she understand Quebecers and play with their strings like a fiddle. Until then, all things being equal Quebecers in general will prefer a bilingual politician, with points doubled if he or she is born or lived in Quebec.

[crazy canuck]

Is it a strong sense of tribalism or something else that makes being born in Quebec necessary for a successful federal politician?

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

So, much like the federal civil service, Canadian leadership candidates are disproportionately from Quebec due to the need for such people to be bilingual.

But that was my point.  Anyone can learn how to speak French.  One does not need to be born in Quebec to acquire the language.  But I am told by our Quebec Languishites that is not enough. I am told that no matter how culturally, politically or linguistically attuned one might be to the interests of Quebec, if the politician isnt born in that province they don't stand a chance.

[Drakken]

But that was my point.  Anyone can learn how to speak French.  One does not need to be born in Quebec to acquire the language.  But I am told by our Quebec Languishites that is not enough. I am told that no matter how culturally, politically or linguistically attuned one might be to the interests of Quebec, if the politician isnt born in that province they don't stand a chance.

Read my post above.

No politician born elsewhere has had any chance in Quebec, becaue next-to-no politician born outside of Quebec has showcased a basic understanding empathy for Quebec. When one 'gets' Quebec and bypasses their latent distrust they'll flock to him in droves like seagulls. That how Jack Layton got such a massive support from Quebecers.

[Valmy]

Is it a strong sense of tribalism or something else that makes being born in Quebec necessary for a successful federal politician?

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

So, much like the federal civil service, Canadian leadership candidates are disproportionately from Quebec due to the need for such people to be bilingual.

But that was my point.  Anyone can learn how to speak French.  One does not need to be born in Quebec to acquire the language.  But I am told by our Quebec Languishites that is not enough. I am told that no matter how culturally, politically or linguistically attuned one might be to the interests of Quebec, if the politician isnt born in that province they don't stand a chance.

Well surely if he lives in the province it is all good. Like if Zoupa decided to become a politician.

[Malthus]

But that was my point.  Anyone can learn how to speak French.  One does not need to be born in Quebec to acquire the language.  But I am told by our Quebec Languishites that is not enough. I am told that no matter how culturally, politically or linguistically attuned one might be to the interests of Quebec, if the politician isnt born in that province they don't stand a chance.

Read my post above.

No politician born elsewhere has had any chance in Quebec, becaue politican born outside of Quebec has showcased a basic understanding of Quebec. When one 'gets' Quebec and bypasses their latent distrust, they'll flock in droves. That how Jack Layton got such a massive support from Quebecers.

Jack Layton was of course born in Quebec - are there any born elsewhere that have ever "understood" Quebec?

[Barrister]

Is it a strong sense of tribalism or something else that makes being born in Quebec necessary for a successful federal politician?

Quebecers generally won't support someone who doesn't speak French.  Almost all Quebecers are bilingual, but few anglo Canadians are.

So, much like the federal civil service, Canadian leadership candidates are disproportionately from Quebec due to the need for such people to be bilingual.

But that was my point.  Anyone can learn how to speak French.  One does not need to be born in Quebec to acquire the language.  But I am told by our Quebec Languishites that is not enough. I am told that no matter how culturally, politically or linguistically attuned one might be to the interests of Quebec, if the politician isnt born in that province they don't stand a chance.

I don't think that's quite right though.  Learning French requires years of work and near immersion in the language.

Or else how do you explain how very few anglo Canadians speak French (outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and the Ottawa region)?

[Malthus]

I don't think that's quite right though.  Learning French requires years of work and near immersion in the language.

Or else how do you explain how very few anglo Canadians speak French (outside of Quebec, New Brunswick and the Ottawa region)?

Because most people don't actually want to be a federal Canadian politician?    And outside of places where French speakers are common, the language isn't really useful for anything else - and people tend to devote time learning things that are actually useful to them?