Star Wars Rogue One MASSIVE SPOILERS BY BERKUT

[Berkut]

Watched Jedi last night with the boys again.  Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie.  And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.

Ewoks.

[Berkut]

Watched Jedi last night with the boys again.  Never understood the Jedi haters - it's a damn fine movie.  And certainly better than Revenge of the Sith.

Wholeheartedly agree. Jedi gets a lot of crap for the Ewoks, and it's deserved, but it gets many more things right, imho. The final confrontation on the Death Star and the ensuing redemption of Darth Vader is the kind of emotional punch that Rogue One lacked to really bat it out of the park.

I think it gets fairly panned for two reasons:

1. Ewoks.
2. Another Death Star? Really? That was the best idea they could come up with?

There is plenty to like about Jedi, but those two things were pretty damn lame, and the stuff that WAS great about it (the redemption of Vader, and confrontation with Luke and the Emperor) could have been done just as well without the addition of Ewoks or yet another Death Star.

[Monoriu]

I like Return of the Jedi, but Ewoks was a big problem.  The idea that a native uprising surprises and defeats the imperial garrison can be done, if executed well.  But Ewoks defeating the best imperial legion with sticks is stretching it. 

[Valmy]

I thought it was lame as a kid. I mean I was here for big battles with awesome ships and stuff.

Now I just sort of tolerate it so I can get to the Emperor parts. It was definitely not the profound message Lucas intended because, like you said Mono, it was just too ridiculous the way it was done.

[The Minsky Moment]

The Saw Guerrera plot is there to make the transgressive comparison between the "good" rebels of the SW universe and the Islamic insurgent types of our world.  A ballsy thing to do.  But in terms of making the plot work, he's unnecessary - there are any number of ways for her to go to ground.

It points to a broader problem that Jyn isn't the strongest character (no fault of Jones).  Starting with the terribly clichéd backstory.  Then the pace of the action forces them to accelerate the character arc, such that within a matter of hours she is transformed from surly rebel without a cause, into the inspiring leader of grizzled veterans.

Cassian OTOH is more interesting. Having his first appearance be a brutal murder was brillant - a kind of hat tip to the Han Shot First crowd but really upping the ante, for a conflicted character a lot more complex than Solo.  In a movie whose strength is that it brings a gritty ethical realism to the SW universe, where there are real hard choices to be made, he is the key character.  Or should be.  I understand all the reasons for wanting a female lead, but having already done that to good effect in the prior movie it didn't need to be done here. 

BTW I disagree with a comment above that moral ambiguity was not previously part of the SW movie canon.  It's always been there to some degree - yes there is a light side and dark side, but they are both aspects of the same Force.  The Jedi put their trust in the Force, but the same Force that helps Luke destroy the Death Star is also the same Force that allowed the empire to wipe out the Jedi and allow it to be built in the first place.  Moral ambiguity is also is also present in the prequels, though not always spelled out as clearly.

[Monoriu]

I am ok with the idea of a second death star.  It is the logical thing to do.  If I can build a death star, which is a weapon that I believe will bring me ultimate victory, but it was destroyed due to a design flaw, then it is natural to build another one with the flaw corrected. 

[Berkut]

I am ok with the idea of a second death star.  It is the logical thing to do.  If I can build a death star, which is a weapon that I believe will bring me ultimate victory, but it was destroyed due to a design flaw, then it is natural to build another one with the flaw corrected. 

You can justify it "logically", but from a storytelling perspective, it was lazy and boring.

[Zoupa]

Indeed, which is another really *yawn* part about the Force Awakens. Now it's Starkiller base! The exact same shit but it doesn't have hyperspace but it doesn't matter since my big cannon can shoot down whole system light years away in like 30 seconds and also it's a big red shooting color isn't it cool!!1111oneone111!!

So, so stupid.

[Valmy]

Indeed, which is another really *yawn* part about the Force Awakens. Now it's Starkiller base! The exact same shit but it doesn't have hyperspace but it doesn't matter since my big cannon can shoot down whole system light years away in like 30 seconds and also it's a big red shooting color isn't it cool!!1111oneone111!!

So, so stupid.

Yeah there was a lot of stuff I liked about TFA but WOW was the plot bad. Laughably bad. So bad the characters were joking about it

That trope drives me nuts btw. If you are not a comedy do not lampshade how stupid your movie is, make one that is not stupid.

I do love nutty emo sith kid though. God bless him.

[Berkut]

Yeah. That's no moon that's a space station!

WE HAVE TO DO BETTER!

Thats no planet, that's a space station!

Blech.

[11B4V]

Indeed, which is another really *yawn* part about the Force Awakens. Now it's Starkiller base! The exact same shit but it doesn't have hyperspace but it doesn't matter since my big cannon can shoot down whole system light years away in like 30 seconds and also it's a big red shooting color isn't it cool!!1111oneone111!!

So, so stupid.

Very true. Typical JJ. Star Wars for the assburger generation.

[Habbaku]

JJ Abrams is a hack.

Rian Johnson will save us all.

[jimmy olsen]

I like Return of the Jedi, but Ewoks was a big problem.  The idea that a native uprising surprises and defeats the imperial garrison can be done, if executed well.  But Ewoks defeating the best imperial legion with sticks is stretching it.

He originally planned to use Wookies. He should have stayed with that.

[merithyn]

What is up with platonic relationships and Star Wars? First Rey weirdly friendzones Finn in The Force Awakens and then after there was this tension between Jyn and Cassian (congrats on being a new Star Wars hero with more than on syllable in your name btw) they hold hands and hug chastely while dying? What is this? It seems like a conscious choice I just don't understand why.

Though considering how having children usually goes for Star Wars characters maybe it is just a self-preserving instinct.

It's to pass the Mako Mori Test.

The "Mako Mori test", formulated by a Tumblr user and named after the only significant female character of Pacific Rim, asks whether a female character has a narrative arc that is not about supporting a man's story.

[merithyn]

I like it.
Always annoys me how in films the lead man and lead woman always have to have something going on between them.

There are hundreds of movies where this is not the case. Including every Star Wars film except two of the prequels

But it was weird in this case. They set it up like Finn had the hots for Rey and then clearly there was tension between Cassian and Jyn and in both cases they seemed to have intentionally had it go nowhere. I just do not understand what they are going for there.

Show me an action movie where the main protagonist is a woman who isn't saved by a man and there isn't a love interest. I'll wait for your list of "hundreds".