Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

Started by Josquius, February 20, 2016, 07:46:34 AM

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How would you vote on Britain remaining in the EU?

British- Remain
12 (12%)
British - Leave
7 (7%)
Other European - Remain
21 (21%)
Other European - Leave
6 (6%)
ROTW - Remain
34 (34%)
ROTW - Leave
20 (20%)

Total Members Voted: 98

Sheilbh

Quote from: Josquius on November 30, 2022, 12:27:14 PMBBC4 surviving where 3 was once canned always did seem a very questionable decision. The BBC certainly trends a bit too high brow on occasion. But the response isn't the encourage the worst aspects of the country onwards.
As the example up of the racist 83 year old aristocrat shows, I'm really not sure the "semi-skilled & unskilled manual occupations, unemployed and lowest grade occupations" are the worst aspects of this country (or any country) :P
Let's bomb Russia!

OttoVonBismarck

If there is anything good in Britain, it is certainly in the working class and not the traditional upper middle class / upper class who are responsible for almost all British sins ever committed.

Barrister

Quote from: Tamas on November 30, 2022, 08:51:17 AMFFS :bleeding: I wonder how many generations it will take for "visible minorities" to be accepted as British. I remember reading once how in Denmark even third-generation immigrants are just "immigrants"

So, I mean I understand how visible minorities would feel like the question "where are you from" seems to imply that they don't really belong.

But it's also such a natural and human reaction to figure out how other people fit into the world, and whether you have some connection with them.  And almost everyone I know is proud of their ancestry, whether they moved within their lifetime, or 5 generations back.  I mean I feel like I have a slight kinship with anyone of Ukrainian heritage, even if neither of us have ever been there or speak the language.

I understand how the woman in question, being grilled about her heritage at Buckingham Palace, feels like she's being told she doesn't belong.  But I also feel that if she met someone else of black Caribbean heritage they'd both quickly comment that fact to each other.

I don't know what the answer is.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Sheilbh

Yeah I'm interested in people's background and I talk about mine. But I don't think I'd ask in that way and I'd be careful with tone, because I think tone is key.

I'd guess tone might not be great with an 83 year old aristocrat and "courtier".
Let's bomb Russia!

Valmy

Quote from: Tamas on November 30, 2022, 08:51:17 AMFFS :bleeding: I wonder how many generations it will take for "visible minorities" to be accepted as British. I remember reading once how in Denmark even third-generation immigrants are just "immigrants"

The Roma and the Jews have been in Europe for so long nobody quite knows when they first arrived yet they were never accepted.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Josquius

#23195
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 30, 2022, 01:12:13 PM
Quote from: Josquius on November 30, 2022, 12:27:14 PMBBC4 surviving where 3 was once canned always did seem a very questionable decision. The BBC certainly trends a bit too high brow on occasion. But the response isn't the encourage the worst aspects of the country onwards.
As the example up of the racist 83 year old aristocrat shows, I'm really not sure the "semi-skilled & unskilled manual occupations, unemployed and lowest grade occupations" are the worst aspects of this country (or any country) :P

There's ITV watchers amidst all of these questionable ABCD groups :contract:

Though on average stats show more at the lower end I do think it's rather patronising to go too much into "the working class must like love Island" thinking.
I don't think employment class is the key factor in determining who has no taste.

I'm maybe going a bit old school communist here but I can't help but think about how we should be spurring working people on to better themselves. Less more trashy low brow reality tv and more presenting good stuff in more accessible ways, more diverse settings for comedies (bring back sitcoms!), etc...
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garbon

Quote from: Barrister on November 30, 2022, 01:21:38 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 30, 2022, 08:51:17 AMFFS :bleeding: I wonder how many generations it will take for "visible minorities" to be accepted as British. I remember reading once how in Denmark even third-generation immigrants are just "immigrants"

So, I mean I understand how visible minorities would feel like the question "where are you from" seems to imply that they don't really belong.

But it's also such a natural and human reaction to figure out how other people fit into the world, and whether you have some connection with them.  And almost everyone I know is proud of their ancestry, whether they moved within their lifetime, or 5 generations back.  I mean I feel like I have a slight kinship with anyone of Ukrainian heritage, even if neither of us have ever been there or speak the language.

I understand how the woman in question, being grilled about her heritage at Buckingham Palace, feels like she's being told she doesn't belong.  But I also feel that if she met someone else of black Caribbean heritage they'd both quickly comment that fact to each other.

I don't know what the answer is.

The answer is clear. You don't need to trace someone's geneaology when you first meet them. If you can't mind your own business, then stop asking after the initial question - for certain by the 2nd. There's no need to go further than that.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Barrister

Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2022, 02:56:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 30, 2022, 01:21:38 PMI don't know what the answer is.

The answer is clear. You don't need to trace someone's geneaology when you first meet them. If you can't mind your own business, then stop asking after the initial question - for certain by the 2nd. There's no need to go further than that.

In the quoted dialogue it was rapidly clear that the lady did not want to have that particular discussion, for sure, and it was remarkably poor manners to keep pressing.

But I guess I disagree that asking "Where are you from" by itself is offensive.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Gups

It's just weird as a first question. Equivalent to asking someone what their dad does or what school they went to.

Sheilbh

Quote from: Gups on November 30, 2022, 03:13:49 PMIt's just weird as a first question. Equivalent to asking someone what their dad does or what school they went to.
Yeah. And you'd think having watched the Queen do it for 60 years that she'd have mastered safe small talk like "have you come far?"
Let's bomb Russia!

garbon

Quote from: Gups on November 30, 2022, 03:13:49 PMIt's just weird as a first question. Equivalent to asking someone what their dad does or what school they went to.

:yes:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

HVC

Or couch it better. Where is your family from. So you're not calling them personally foreign.

I have a weird name and I tan, so I get asked were I'm from all the time. Doesn't bother me. But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother everyone. Ask once, clarify and move if they're still being obtuse.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Admiral Yi

I regularly ask people what their ethnicity is.  Maybe not as a first question (though sometimes) but often as a 3rd or 4th.

No introductory chit chat is anyone's "business."

garbon

Quote from: Barrister on November 30, 2022, 03:00:08 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 30, 2022, 02:56:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 30, 2022, 01:21:38 PMI don't know what the answer is.

The answer is clear. You don't need to trace someone's geneaology when you first meet them. If you can't mind your own business, then stop asking after the initial question - for certain by the 2nd. There's no need to go further than that.

In the quoted dialogue it was rapidly clear that the lady did not want to have that particular discussion, for sure, and it was remarkably poor manners to keep pressing.

But I guess I disagree that asking "Where are you from" by itself is offensive.

https://hbr.org/2020/10/whats-wrong-with-asking-where-are-you-from

QuoteWhat's Wrong with Asking "Where Are You From?"

...

Here is the problem: For those of us who already feel "different" in a given space, being asked where we're from carries implicit assumptions about our race, caste, ethnicity, nationality, etc. Often, it translates into: You don't seem to (already) belong here. It validates existing beliefs about social identities and can be quite patronizing. For instance, following-up the question with, "Oh, of course" or "Yes, you do look like you're from [country]" can force people into neat categories of race, gender, or nationality, without acknowledging the nuances of that person's identity.

None of us have singular identities and most of us belong in many places. People can belong in different geographies, cultures, and identities at the same time. Most of us don't identify with markers we were born with. So, to me, the question, "Where are you from?" is very reductive.

Rest of article, I think has some good different perspectives on the question though at times the cringe word microagression is mentioned. :D
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

garbon

Quote from: HVC on November 30, 2022, 03:21:13 PMOr couch it better. Where is your family from. So you're not calling them personally foreign.

I have a weird name and I tan, so I get asked were I'm from all the time. Doesn't bother me. But that doesn't mean it doesn't bother everyone. Ask once, clarify and move if they're still being obtuse.

That's usually the annoying follow-up after you've gone through the sequence of establishing your bona fides (first where are you from? where do you come from? where are you originally from). Wtf does it matter where my family is from? We just met.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.