Star Wars Discussion Thread contains spoilers (and may contain nuts)

[crazy canuck]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

[Martinus]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

Yup.

[Queequeg]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

He took a wookie blaster bolt straight in the chest.

There's like three scenes in the movie about how powerful a wookie blaster is.

It's also pretty clear during his fight with Rey that he has no interest in killing her.  That's a major disadvantage when you're fighting with laser sticks that slice through solid metal doors like......a laser stick through butter.

[crazy canuck]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

He took a wookie blaster bolt straight in the chest.

There's like three scenes in the movie about how powerful a wookie blaster is.

It's also pretty clear during his fight with Rey that he has no interest in killing her.  That's a major disadvantage when you're fighting with laser sticks that slice through solid metal doors like......a laser stick through butter.

Taking a wookie blast can mean a lot of things other than he is a powerful force user.  You are ignoring that he has not finished his training.  There may be a lot of potential there but it is wasted on his tantrums and moodiness.  Attributes that brought him to the dark side and perhaps once he finishes his training they will be attributes that make him strong with the dark side.  But right now Rey clearly has the more powerful raw talent.

[Queequeg]

IDK.  They clearly set him up as powerful, and the wookie bowcaster as extremely powerful.  He's clearly in great distress. 

[Queequeg]

My theory:

Snoke is Darth Plageius.  Both Snoke and Luke are attempting to reform their respective orders in light of the catastrophe that was the Rise and Fall of the Empire for both.

I think Plageius/Snoke is a more complex figure than most of the previous Darths.  He's introduced in Revenge of the Sith as a Sith Lord with "loved ones" and an intense emotional relationship with his mentor, the soon-to-be-Emperor.  This seems more in line with, say, a Revan than a Malak or even a Sidious.  The betrayal of Darth Sidious and Sidious' disastrous Empire made him rethink fundamental Sith tenants, reforming the Order as the Knights of Ren.  "Ren" is the Japanese word for Compassion, and this seems to be in line with Abrams' teasing that the Dark Side think of themselves as the good guys.

[Valmy]

Saw the movie last night. It was ridiculous but it totally worked because the characters were right. I loved baby Solo the bad guy. He is the best Sith Lord ever, he is what Anakin was supposed to be but I actually buy it.

[Valmy]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

I know his moody whineness is glorious. That works for bad guys so much better than good guys. And it was kind of ridiculous how the Dark Side is all about losing yourself in anger and passion when the Sith rarely displayed that in the movies...until this guy. Now that is a Sith wannabe. Loved it. When he lost his shit every time something went wrong I almost cheered. And needing his Dad's support in killing him was great. I was so worried they would kill him off in that light saber fight, I want to see more of that guy.

And Ray is a fucking badass force savant. She is so awesome she is almost more of a plot device than a character...but I thought it worked. She and that rebel pilot were almost too awesome to be real. But again I actually thought that worked fine. She better be Luke's secret daughter. Space Opera convention demands it. Don't get cute on us Abrams.

[Martinus]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

I know his moody whineness is glorious. That works for bad guys so much better than good guys. And it was kind of ridiculous how the Dark Side is all about losing yourself in anger and passion when the Sith rarely displayed that in the movies...until this guy. Now that is a Sith wannabe. Loved it. When he lost his shit every time something went wrong I almost cheered. And needing his Dad's support in killing him was great. I was so worried they would kill him off in that light saber fight, I want to see more of that guy.

And Ray is a fucking badass force savant. She is so awesome she is almost more of a plot device than a character...but I thought it worked. She and that rebel pilot were almost too awesome to be real. But again I actually thought that worked fine. She better be Luke's secret daughter. Space Opera convention demands it. Don't get cute on us Abrams.

Hehe, yeah. Couldn't agree more. She is the Campbellian hero - her main "weakness" is that she doesn't want this but wants to go back to her home planet. The plot twist is that it's her, not Finn, who is the "hero" of the story.

[Grinning_Colossus]

If Obi Wan had a kid with that Mandalorian chick, she'd have to be like 50 by now.

Even older, since any sexual encounter would have had to happen when Obi was a padawan, which would make her at least 62 by TFA. The timeline of Rey being Obi's granddaughter could work, but only if Luke went for a somewhat older woman. It wouldn't work genetically, though, since Obi-wan (red hair)+Satine (blonde) would produce a red or blonde child, so Luke (blond) + Obi's daughter (blond/red) wouldn't produce dark-haired Rey. 

[Barrister]

As a Sith lord he is well above everyone around him

He is not a Sith Lord.  He hadnt even finished his training yet.  That combined with your observation that he was a moody whiner who didnt spend much time training explains why the Fremen like girl kicked his ass.

I know his moody whineness is glorious. That works for bad guys so much better than good guys. And it was kind of ridiculous how the Dark Side is all about losing yourself in anger and passion when the Sith rarely displayed that in the movies...until this guy. Now that is a Sith wannabe. Loved it. When he lost his shit every time something went wrong I almost cheered. And needing his Dad's support in killing him was great. I was so worried they would kill him off in that light saber fight, I want to see more of that guy.

And Ray is a fucking badass force savant. She is so awesome she is almost more of a plot device than a character...but I thought it worked. She and that rebel pilot were almost too awesome to be real. But again I actually thought that worked fine. She better be Luke's secret daughter. Space Opera convention demands it. Don't get cute on us Abrams.

I agree with everything you said...

except about Rey being Luke's daughter.  That's such an obvious conclusion that it better be a fucking head fake by Abrams.

[Valmy]

except about Rey being Luke's daughter.  That's such an obvious conclusion that it better be a fucking head fake by Abrams.

I disagree. This is Star Wars not the Usual Suspects.

[Malthus]

except about Rey being Luke's daughter.  That's such an obvious conclusion that it better be a fucking head fake by Abrams.

I disagree. This is Star Wars not the Usual Suspects.

Snoke was Luke all along! 

[Barrister]

except about Rey being Luke's daughter.  That's such an obvious conclusion that it better be a fucking head fake by Abrams.

I disagree. This is Star Wars not the Usual Suspects.

Come on - "Luke I am your father" came out of absolutely nowhere!  It was a huge shocker back in the day.

Rey is probably someone's daugher.  It could be Obi-Wan, or Wedge Antilles, or Lando, or Boba Fett, or Lobot, or whomever.  But I hope she's not a Skywalker.

[Valmy]

Come on - "Luke I am your father" came out of absolutely nowhere!  It was a huge shocker back in the day.

Rey is probably someone's daugher.  It could be Obi-Wan, or Wedge Antilles, or Lando, or Boba Fett, or Lobot, or whomever.  But I hope she's not a Skywalker.

Of course she is a Skywalker. The whole series is about the Skywalker family. Wedge Antilles really?