The Off Topic Topic

[Josquius]

It's extremely vague if not exactly true. One only needs to watch ads to see how much English if franglais the people are exposed. While other languages have very low exposure, English is on a league of its own.
I'd say that all languages are suffering due to the school system not working very well except for the middle class or even only the elite, this includes French and foreign languages.

PS : Spain and Italy strike me as having English levels comparable to France, judging by work acquaintances with comparable backgrounds, that is not so good.

Italy was curious for me. They did very very well, but to me France seems much better. Italian friends always go on about how terrible Italians are at English and when I was there I didn't find much in the way of even passive knowledge...except from immigrants
Portugal doing so well was a surprise to me too, though I haven't had many encounters with Portuguese folks.

Back to der Spiess
Compared to Spain, Italy and France, for sure.
Besides, IKK's English is a good as his Portuguese, his mother language.
I'm more sceptical of Austria being in the top tier as well.

Nah, I agree with Austria doing well. They're like a smaller, richer, better educated Germany. When I visited Austria I remember having a conersation with a bus driver.

[Sheilbh]

Really? I went there some years ago and I could barely find anyone who talked it.  In French is traditionally how you get around in that part of the world.

Strange. My French is pretty poor but I'd usually start with it and then I'd reach a limit and we'd use English. I found loads of people spoke English and it was generally beyond just selling you hash English

I was in touristy towns (though not Marrakesh ) which would have helped a lot.

[Iormlund]

The tourist thing makes all the difference.

I was in Turkey this last summer. At Capadocia, everyone spoke English fluently. Probably other languages as well (my boss once remarked how many Turks knew Spanish after visiting Istanbul). While I was at Ankara though, finding someone who spoke English was pretty much impossible. And we're talking about a vibrant city with craploads of young people due to their demographics.

In my experience, at least in Europe, the more users a language has, the worse their English will be. Maybe because there's a big enough market for dubbed shows, while smaller communities rely on subtitles.

[The Larch]

Really? I went there some years ago and I could barely find anyone who talked it.  In French is traditionally how you get around in that part of the world.

Strange. My French is pretty poor but I'd usually start with it and then I'd reach a limit and we'd use English. I found loads of people spoke English and it was generally beyond just selling you hash English

I was in touristy towns (though not Marrakesh ) which would have helped a lot.

Which cities? I went to Casablanca and Rabat and, as I said, no luck. Exception: people working in marketplaces, those guys would speak Basque if it was needed to sell something.

It was actually easier to find somebody that spoke Spanish, actually, but AFAIK that is more common in the north of Morocco.

[Sheilbh]

Tangiers, Fes, Rabat, Casablanca and Essaouira. I don't remember it being an issue anywhere but I barely remember Rabat.

Edit: and yeah the market place guys were amazing.

[The Larch]

The tourist thing makes all the difference.

I was in Turkey this last summer. At Capadocia, everyone spoke English fluently. Probably other languages as well (my boss once remarked how many Turks knew Spanish after visiting Istanbul). While I was at Ankara though, finding someone who spoke English was pretty much impossible. And we're talking about a vibrant city with craploads of young people due to their demographics.

The situation with Spanish is quite funny, it seems that in some countries it is becoming a popular 2nd foreign language after English. When I went to Warsaw for the first time my friend told us to be careful not to badmouth people in Spanish behind their backs because there was a good chance that they could understand it, and when I went to Belgrade a friend of my friend greeted me with a "Buenas tardes mi corasón", which she learned by watching South American telenovelas. 

In my experience, at least in Europe, the more users a language has, the worse their English will be. Maybe because there's a big enough market for dubbed shows, while smaller communities rely on subtitles.

That's my perception as well. Maybe the exception are Germans, which have the most spoken language in Europe yet seem to have a more than acceptable grasp of English (although I wouldn't say great when talking on average)

[The Larch]

Tangiers, Fes, Rabat, Casablanca and Essaouira. I don't remember it being an issue anywhere but I barely remember Rabat.

Edit: and yeah the market place guys were amazing.

Essaouira is the hippy surfer place down south, right?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. Very pretty and expensive Portuguese fort.

[The Larch]

Yeah. Very pretty and expensive Portuguese fort.

I thought about going there when I visited but ran out of time. Heard it's a gorgeous place.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah. It's beautiful and has great food, but it's like an eight hour bus ride from anywhere else. So it's a bit of a commitment. Would've hated to arrived and then be like 'it's a bit shit.'

[The Larch]

Yeah. It's beautiful and has great food, but it's like an eight hour bus ride from anywhere else. So it's a bit of a commitment. Would've hated to arrived and then be like 'it's a bit shit.'

Essaouira also has the advantage of having been historically one of the main trading ports of Morocco, besides the hippies and the surfers, so they're quite used to the presence of foreigners there.

[Zanza]

Didn't look like they do a lot of trading nowadays though. Their port isn't really big enough to offload a medium-sized freight ship. It's just fishing boats and tourists.

[The Larch]

Didn't look like they do a lot of trading nowadays though. Their port isn't really big enough to offload a medium-sized freight ship. It's just fishing boats and tourists.

That's why I said historically, it's heyday was in the XVIIIth century IIRC. AFAIK Morocco's modern ports are in the north.

[MadImmortalMan]

Just checked in at the Queen Anne hotel in SF. This place is cool. 

[Syt]