European Islamophobia

[Martinus]

"- 24% would ban Muslims from immigrating"

Seems at least some evidence.

Not really. Banning people from immigrating is a bit different than wanting to curtail rights of people who are citizens.

[Martinus]

Here you go, derspiess:

Die Zeit quotes a recent poll by the Bertelsmann Foundation who monitor attitudes towards religions. According to their recent survey (taken before the attack in Paris):
- 57% of Germans see Islam as a threat
- 40% feel they're strangers in their own country
- 24% would ban Muslims from immigrating

At the same time, more than half of Germans consider themselves to be tolerant.

Not quite what I was looking for.  Looking for a poll with questions something like "Do you think Muslims generally approve of terrorism?"

One can have negative feelings about the numbers of Muslim immigrants or changes/issues related to those numbers without thinking Muslims heart terrorism.

Exactly. As I already said before in this thread, my main beef with Islam and Muslims is not terrorism but their positions on many issues such as gay rights or women's rights. Even if there were no cases of Islamic terrorism, I would still want to curtail immigration of people from countries and cultures who, if allowed to vote, would not only oppose gay marriage, but actually believe that homosexuality should be criminalised.

I think certain parts of the left (represented by people like Jacob) seem to confuse or conflate rights of those who are already citizens or legal residents with those who want to become such - I don't think any country has any duty to accept everyone who wants to settle there as a citizen - it is acceptable to profile prospective citizens, including by views they hold, generally.

[Martinus]

think of what would happen to gays in America, if there was a revolution and right-wing "Tea Party" fundies seized power. .

They wouldn't be able to get married anymore, but would pay lower income taxes.

Yeah. I doubt that if Tea Party got full power, they would go Handmaid's Tale on everybody's ass.

[Martinus]

And, which is why I have an issue with it, statements like Farage's which blamed this attack on multiculturalism and said there's a 'fifth column with our passports' in our country doesn't seem to draw any distinction between Islam, Islamism and Muslims.

Sounds like he and Grallon have a lot in common.

Hell, there have been at least a couple of Langusihites who have said that we are "Islamicist Apologists". Apparently, you don't even have to be Muslim to be the enemy. 

Well, that's the thing about apologists - they are not of the group they appease, obviously.

[Martinus]

I hate:

Geordies
Mouthy Krauts
Sanctimonious Nordics
Serbs
Russians
MOUTH SUGA
Wops
Dagos
Zipperheads
Crackers
Moon crickets
Beaners
Frost backs
Eggplants
Camel jockeys of all stripes
Curry eaters
Bogans

[Razgovory]

Sorry dont see it.

Of Course not, you didn't even know that garbon was a Republican.

[Martinus]

Mongers is right, IMO, that a number of American posters were pretty anti-Muslim around the Iraq wars etc.

I don't think it's particularly ironic, in that the posters who were are not the same ones as are taking Euros to task over any anti-Muslim attitudes.

But that's exactly the thing. He's spinning a narrative of hypocritical Americans who espouse anti-muslim attitudes and then are now taking Euros to task over that.

He probably has a hard time telling Americans apart from one another.

Well I have a hard time recalling the ones who weren't at the time revelling in some of the violence meeted out in Iraq.   

Do you recall that thread we had about the apache helicopter footage released by I  think by wikileaks, that showed those Iraqi, militia and/or civilians being chewed up by cannon fire and possibly missile strikes, iirc several posters thought that pretty neat. Are one or two of those now taking a more nuanced approach to the Middle East and Muslim, both in the light of experience and as an opportunity to attack Europeans ? 

I can't prove these, because we don't have the old databases of posting nor the access the original Paradox OT. 
So it's just my impression, does that make it untruthful?

Well, to be honest, the only Americans who are now taking Europeans to task over islamophobia are really Raz (who is insane) and garbon (who wasn't even posting during the Iraq war and if he was, he would have probably said something snide he read on salon.com). The key critics of European islamophobia seem to be Anglo-saxon Canucks and pseudo-Canucks (like Jacob) and I don't remember them cheering Iraq war that much (Malthus is the only one who occassionally takes islamophobic stances, but that's only when Israel is doing the killing and he is getting transmissions from the Mother Ship). 

I remember CdM and Berkut were cheering on glassing the Middle East but they are not now in the forefront of the ponytail islamic apologists brigade (CdM is just sniping out of spite for everything and everyone).

Incidentally, you are probably the one who comes to my mind as having done a complete u-turn on the muslim question. Hell, even your original name was anti-war.

[Martinus]

FWIW, I think CdM's analysis is pretty spot on.

[Martinus]

Meanwhile, in a stable Muslim country and our ally:

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) — A Saudi blogger who was sentenced last May to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes will be publicly flogged for the first time after Friday prayers outside a mosque in the Red Sea coastal city of Jiddah, a person close to his case said Thursday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/08/saudi-blogger-flogged_n_6436778.html?cps=gravity_2685_-4988045114515739826

See, Jacob, Malthus and others. This is what I am talking about. This is not just about Muslim terrorism. I don't want to live in a country where laws like this exist - and while most Muslims may not approve of terrorism, will you guarantee to me that a substantial part of Muslims do not approve of laws like this?

Incidentally, an interesting tidbit showing the Saudi rule of law:

Badawi's lawyer Waleed Abul-Khair was sentenced in July to 15 years imprisonment and barred from traveling for another 15 years after being found guilty by an anti-terrorism court of "undermining the regime and officials," ''inciting public opinion" and "insulting the judiciary."

So yeah, the question to prospective immigrants should be - do you agree with this ruling. If you do, sorry, you can't come in.

[Razgovory]

I'm curious Marty, if a French Muslim is murdered in retaliation, will you be this upset?

[Berkut]

Mongers is right, IMO, that a number of American posters were pretty anti-Muslim around the Iraq wars etc.

I don't think it's particularly ironic, in that the posters who were are not the same ones as are taking Euros to task over any anti-Muslim attitudes.

But that's exactly the thing. He's spinning a narrative of hypocritical Americans who espouse anti-muslim attitudes and then are now taking Euros to task over that.

He probably has a hard time telling Americans apart from one another.

Well I have a hard time recalling the ones who weren't at the time revelling in some of the violence meeted out in Iraq.   

Do you recall that thread we had about the apache helicopter footage released by I  think by wikileaks, that showed those Iraqi, militia and/or civilians being chewed up by cannon fire and possibly missile strikes, iirc several posters thought that pretty neat. Are one or two of those now taking a more nuanced approach to the Middle East and Muslim, both in the light of experience and as an opportunity to attack Europeans ? 

I can't prove these, because we don't have the old databases of posting nor the access the original Paradox OT. 
So it's just my impression, does that make it untruthful?

Well, to be honest, the only Americans who are now taking Europeans to task over islamophobia are really Raz (who is insane) and garbon (who wasn't even posting during the Iraq war and if he was, he would have probably said something snide he read on salon.com). The key critics of European islamophobia seem to be Anglo-saxon Canucks and pseudo-Canucks (like Jacob) and I don't remember them cheering Iraq war that much (Malthus is the only one who occassionally takes islamophobic stances, but that's only when Israel is doing the killing and he is getting transmissions from the Mother Ship). 

I remember CdM and Berkut were cheering on glassing the Middle East

You are a liar, since I never cheered on glassing anything.

[CountDeMoney]

I only support a first-strike use of nuclear weapons against the People's Republic of China.

[Warspite]

You know guys, the search function works once again at Paradox OT. Someone with time could go and find all these instances. #research #primarysources

[Martinus]

Didn't they lose some of the earlier posts though?

[Razgovory]

You are a liar, since I never cheered on glassing anything.

Well, I am insane, but I'm still right.  If some hothead Frenchmen kill a Muslim tomorrow, will Marty cry?  Hell let's up the ante, if someone kills some Jihadi cleric who spouts incendiary bullshit is Marty going talk to us about standing up for censorship?  Fuck no.