Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Probably a false impression, but it feels like the UK flip flops on their id laws every 3 years

[Sheilbh]

Probably a false impression, but it feels like the UK flip flops on their id laws every 3 years

Sort of. We've never had them. And we still don't

We flip flop every year on whether we should have them. Every few years some ministers/PMs become convinced it is the solution to all other policy problems (welfare, NHS, immigration etc - everything solved by IT). But government does not have a great record on new complex IT projects which would sit behind a national ID scheme.

I would add that the great evangeliser of it in British politics is Tony Blair - and would just lightly note that his Foundation his phenomenally well-supported by Larry Ellison. I think Blair is a true believer. I think his backers are also likely to possibly do well out of a national ID scheme.

[HVC]

I don't get that. You have passports and driving licenses. Perhaps health cards? Is integrated id really that much more difficult?

[Sheilbh]

No health cards. There is an argument for it, and the NHS alone has multiple different patient record systems working - loads of different legacy systems over the years held together by tape and goodwill (I have regular treatment and I think I have 3-4 different NHS apps or sign in accounts ).

But in that lies a lot of the risk for a big government IT project of important things being affected - but also then making it tie into all the hundreds of legacy systems across the government estate. It's less sexy and doesn't require legislation but upgrading and consolidating the IT systems would be a big step forward and, I think, necessary before you even think about national ID.

I think a lot about that article during Covid on "the database state" and basically the most effective bits of the state response here was when existing databases could be used (financial support, vaccine roll-out) and the bits that failed catastrophically (contact tracing) either relied on government building a new database or getting several different legacy ones to talk to each other. Fixing it is not the stuff of political dreams but I think it'd be the 21st century version of, say, setting up the postal system. And do it without Larry Ellison

(And I should say there are other bits of the digital estate with the one gov.uk log on which are really smooth, really easy and where you can do lots.)

[HVC]

No health card? Canada had a simple one for decades and a photo ID one in ontario since the mid 90s (health is a provincial thing). What's the hold up UK.

Although stupidly the photo health card doesn't count as ID. Only valid for health services.

[Duque de Bragança]

I don't get that. You have passports and driving licenses. Perhaps health cards? Is integrated id really that much more difficult?

They don't even have a written constitution.

[Sheilbh]

No health card? Canada had a simple one for decades and a photo ID one in ontario since the mid 90s (health is a provincial thing). What's the hold up UK.

Although stupidly the photo health card doesn't count as ID. Only valid for health services.

What's it for? It's not even a debate/issue here as I'm not sure what problem it would be intended to fix.

[HVC]

To keep dirty foreigners from getting free healthcare


It's kind of morphed over the years, and is treated differently in different provinces. In Ontario it's primarily used to show you're entitled to healthcare, but on the physicians side it's used to track visits to clinics/doctors for pay outs.

Cards have around since the late 60s and early 70s for each province, so can't blame IT

[Sheilbh]

Broad principle for the NHS is free at the point of need. You have like a patient number for record keeping.

There's a (costly) immigration surcharge for people here on visas. And if you need to stay in hospital  or inpatient care on a stay while you're here you will be charged for it by the NHS.

But anyone who is resident is entitled to register for a GP and I think A&E is always free for anyone who needs it.

It's also not massively controversial in terms of immigration discourse - that's far more focused on other welfare/benefits.

[HVC]

I kept my old red and white one for as long as I could because it was a lifetime issue. But eventually it hit the deadline. Now I have to renew the photo one every 5 years. I actually had to go to the hospital after the old red and white one lapsed. Still got my tests and all that, but I was invoiced as if I was a non resident. Not that expensive (especially compared to American insanity).  All I had to do was go apply for my photo id version and then call the hospitals billing department and it was cleared up.

[Josquius]

Digital ID is dead and we are going for drill, baby, drill.

A worryingly rubbish start. Flipping two sensible things back to dumb.

The EU letting the uk back in would be like a battered wife letting her husband back into the house. Mind boggling stupid, but not unimaginable.

 

Were the UK back in the EU by some miracle, Maggie's rebate would not.

Unknown whether it would even be necessary.
With Ukraines candicacy (and changing times) CAP is looking at serious reform.

Ukraine is not entering any time soon. They will get a special status to ease the wait, once or if the war is over.

Montenegro is still stuck in candidate purgatory, somewhat stable, not that poor Balkans-wise,  so not that many issues for a Balkan country, besides too many Russian oligarchs there.

I don't know. The vibe is they're dying to defend Europe right now. Normal accession rules aren't really in order here.
The key will be how well corruption gets sorted though. Signs at the moment are poor.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

You underestimate the farmers and their love for the CAP-teat.