Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

The EU letting the uk back in would be like a battered wife letting her husband back into the house. Mind boggling stupid, but not unimaginable.

[Sheilbh]

It'd be insane. The only country in the EU where there wasn't broad cross-party consensus on the fundamental idea of membership in Europe and broad support for the idea of the EU. There's a lesson to be learned there (I think relevant for some of the more challenging accession countries currently tbh).

[HVC]

You were a bad actor when you were there, a bad actor on the way out, and a bad actor still. If you had an economy the size of an Eastern European state no one would consider it. But greed. Always greed. Plus stupidity lol.

*edit* Or create a a red headed step child membership tier, no voting rights

[Sheilbh]

You were a bad actor when you were there, a bad actor on the way out, and a bad actor still. If you had an economy the size of an Eastern European state no one would consider it. But greed. Always greed. Plus stupidity lol.

*edit* Or create a a red headed step child membership tier, no voting rights

I'm sorry I think that's nonsesne And greed seems an unusual way of framing one of the EU's 2-3 net contributors (at that point) Or rather I think it's wanting good things to go with good things, bad things to go with bad things, morality tales and the world lets us down. But I think this sort of goes to my point that I think the European project itself was (and is) contested in Britain in a way that it isn't in the rest of Europe - and that's a very different conversation than "of course we should do this, the question is how?"

Within the remit of the EU I think the UK is a really strong driver of the EU that exists to this day - but I agree it comes in waves or is on specific areas. To use your framing I'd basically say the UK was out but supportive until the 70s, a "bad actor" in the 70s, under Major in the 90s and then under Cameron. But constructive and important under Thatcher, Blair and (to a lesser extent) Brown. I think the single market as it exists is hugely shaped by and was pushed by Thatcher - this was why so many older Europeans and older Eurocrats were baffled by Tory Brexiteers (Mario Monti famously said to a Tory minister - "why are you doing this? We all agree with you now"). Similarly I think of the big EU countries the UK was the most consistent and strongest advocate of enlargement - ironically enlargement and the UK choosing not to impose transitional controls on immigration from the accession countries like everyone else was a big factor in the Brexit vote (worth adding the UK government's assessments was that fewer than 500k people would come to the UK over several years - millions did, which meant they hadn't quite prepared for that scale ).

On a more nuanced area - in my area of law the UK is missed because our regulator was (and still is) by some distance the best-resourced in Europe. It used to be very communautaire and basically volunteer to do the first draft of regulatory guidance - which was a form of soft power. I think that's true in a few areas and then in other areas UK regulators were broadly hostile to any "encroachment" from Europe - the BofE and ECB didn't always get on.

I think the UK being the awkward member allowed a lot of other countries to hide behind it. Now the UK has gone the awkward squad tends to be Poland leading a bit more on most things. But there were member states that were kind of happy to let Britain take the lead on being the difficult one - and have now had to become a bit more vocal themselves.

Separately I think given Britain's contribution over the years to European defence I'm not sure it's a bad actor on that field either - though we need to spend more.

Edit:  I mean my observation on that would also be that significant and effective PMs domestically (Thatcher and Blair) were also important and relevant in driving policy at a European level. Weak and ineffective PMs, especially over divided parties (Wilson, Major, Cameron) were the same domestically and in Europe. Brown's a bit sui generis beause I think on both he was a bit of a disaster but also 100% the right man to be in charge in 2008 with the crash. I think that's probably true across Europe and why historically German Chancellors and French Presidents play a big role, why Poland tends to be punch above their weight - and perhaps why Italy, historically, hasn't.

[HVC]

You were a bad actor when you were there, a bad actor on the way out, and a bad actor still. If you had an economy the size of an Eastern European state no one would consider it. But greed. Always greed. Plus stupidity lol.

*edit* Or create a a red headed step child membership tier, no voting rights

I'm sorry I think that's nonsesne

No need to be sorry, I can't be right  about everything. Don't everyone disagree at once